Algebraic property of real numbers

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Mr X
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the algebraic properties of real numbers, questioning the necessity and role of addition and multiplication within the framework of real numbers. Participants explore whether these operations are fundamental to the definition of real numbers or merely convenient choices, and how they relate to the properties of order and completeness.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the inclusion of algebraic properties in the context of real numbers, suggesting that addition and multiplication may not be inherent to the numbers themselves.
  • Another participant argues that addition and multiplication are fundamental to the structure of real numbers, as they are part of the definitions of identities and inverses.
  • Some participants note that while other operators could be considered, addition and multiplication are the most practical and intuitive for everyday use.
  • A later reply emphasizes that ordering and completeness are defined in relation to addition, challenging the notion that they are more fundamental than algebraic properties.
  • Participants discuss the historical context of how numbers and operations were developed, suggesting that the understanding of these operations evolved from practical needs.
  • There is mention of additional structures related to real numbers, such as metric spaces and Hilbert spaces, indicating a broader mathematical context.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the construction of real numbers and the specific requirements for defining a field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the fundamental nature of addition and multiplication in relation to real numbers. There is no consensus on whether these operations are intrinsic to the definition of real numbers or simply practical conventions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the dependence on definitions and the historical evolution of mathematical concepts, indicating that the discussion may be influenced by varying interpretations of foundational principles.

  • #31
I thought it might be relevant to describe the topology of the real line without any use of the Euclidean metric or any other metric for that matter and without any algebraic structure.

A little web research revealed several ways to characterize the topology of the real line or equivalently any open interval on the real line. The reference is this post on Mathoverflow

https://mathoverflow.net/questions/76134/topological-characterisation-of-the-real-line

The easiest one for me to understand was

- The topological real line is charactrized as a connected locally connected separable regular topological space in which the complement of any point is two disjoint connected sets. The quoted references for this description are

"The topological characterization of an open linear interval", Proc. London Math. Soc.(2) 41 (1936), 191-198
"On the topological characterization of the real line", Department of Mathematics, Carnegie-Mellon University, Report #69-36, 1969

A relevant point made in the post was that the first reference did not say regular space but instead said metric space. Regular is less restrictive than metric space which shows that a metric is not required to define the topology of the real line.
 
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