All eigenvalues of a Hermitian matrix are real

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of eigenvalues of Hermitian matrices, particularly exploring their reality from a physics perspective. Participants debate the implications of this property in relation to measurement and mathematical representation in physics and engineering.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that all eigenvalues of a Hermitian matrix are real and questions how this can be explained from a physics standpoint.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that physics is dependent on the matrix, arguing that mathematical concepts should not require physical explanations.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that complex numbers are used in measurements in engineering, indicating that the relationship between mathematical models and physical reality may not be straightforward.
  • It is proposed that while Hermitian operators are convenient for encoding measurement outcomes, antihermitian operators could also be used without altering the underlying physics.
  • One participant mentions that the use of Hermitian operators is linked to their role as generators of unitary representations of Lie groups, highlighting a deeper mathematical structure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between Hermitian matrices and physical measurements, with no consensus reached on the necessity of explaining the reality of eigenvalues from a physics perspective. Multiple competing views remain regarding the use of complex numbers in measurements and the implications of Hermitian versus antihermitian operators.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects varying levels of abstraction and interpretation of mathematical concepts in relation to physical measurements, with participants acknowledging the complexity of these relationships without resolving them.

Isaac.Wang88
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We know that all eigenvalues of a Hermitian matrix are real. How to explain this from the physics point of view?
 
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Explain that none of our instruments are capable of measuring imaginary quantities? Seriously? You imply that physics depends on the matrix, rather than the matrix is used to describe the physics. There are all sorts of mathematical objects and concepts, none of which need be "explained" from a physics point of view.
Let me know when you measure a length, area, or count with a value of a+bi where a and b are real numbers and i = √-1. I am not familiar with any SI units using complex numbers, are you?
One ought not to confuse different levels of abstraction, if one can avoid it...
 
abitslow said:
Let me know when you measure a length, area, or count with a value of a+bi where a and b are real numbers and i = √-1.

Hmm... we measure quantities that we represent as complex numbers all the time, including distances, velocities, and accelerations.

But then i do engineering. Maybe we have different thresholds of confusion and/or abstraction from physicists.

I am not familiar with any SI units using complex numbers, are you?
You don't need any new units. if a+bi is a length, a and b both have units of meters. Otherwise, scaling a complex length by an arbitrary complex number wouldn't make any sense.

But like you, I'm not sure exactly what the OP wants "explained" about this. If the eigenvalues of the math are always real numbers and the corresponding quantities in the physics are not, the explanation is that the math model doesn't match the real world.

FWIW there are useful engineering math models where the matrices are not Hermitian, and the eigenvalues are physically meaningful but not real.
 
The obvious answer that we measure only real quantities is in fact quite superficial.

Measurement happens in an separate framework from the actual physical time evolution and encoding the possible results with hermitian operators is pure convenience. We could as well use antihermitian operators and take the imaginary eigenvalues as possible measurement outcomes. This would not change any of the physics involved.

However, the much more important use of hermitian operators is as generators of unitary representations of Lie groups. Interestingly, antihermitian operators can be used too and would simplify the notation somewhat and are in fact the choice of many mathematicians. But because it is nice to be able to directly identify generators of a symmetry with possible observables, the convention is to use hermitian operators for group generation and for encoding of possible measurement outcomes with real measured quantities.

Cheers,

Jazz
 

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