All encompasing mathematics flowchart

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the idea of organizing all of mathematics based on fundamental postulates and the feasibility of creating a visual resource that maps these postulates to their derivations. Participants explore the challenges of such an undertaking, considering the complexity and diversity of mathematical knowledge.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that all mathematics can be organized from fundamental postulates, seeking a resource that visually represents these postulates and their conclusions.
  • Another participant counters that mathematics is not based on a single set of postulates, highlighting the existence of multiple axiomatic systems across different branches of mathematics.
  • There is a mention of the impracticality of arranging all mathematical knowledge into a flowchart due to its vastness and the varying meanings of notation in different contexts.
  • Some participants reference existing attempts at similar projects, such as an online logic derivation database and Metamath, which allow tracing derivations from logical axioms.
  • One participant proposes a conceptual model likening the desired resource to Google Earth, allowing users to zoom in and out for varying levels of detail regarding axioms and derivations.
  • A later reply introduces Gödel's incompleteness theorems, suggesting that any system capable of arithmetic will contain true but unprovable statements, which may complicate the organization of mathematical knowledge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility and methodology of organizing mathematical knowledge based on postulates. There is no consensus on whether such a comprehensive resource can be created, and multiple competing ideas about the nature of mathematical organization are present.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of current mathematical frameworks and the challenges posed by the diversity of axiomatic systems, as well as the implications of Gödel's theorems on the completeness of such a project.

silverdiesel
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You know how Euclid organized all geometry based on fundamental postulates. As I understand it, all of mathematics can be organized from fundamental postulates. If this is the case, is there a resource where you can see the posulates and listed below, derivations from those postulates. Not the entire derivations, just the conclusions, so you can get a visual picture of all mathematical knowledge. I know it sounds like a huge undertaking, but I was thinking that it could be acomplished on a website pretty easier than printing out such a list.
 
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Mathematics today isn't done under one single set of postulates. There are many sets of postulates (more commonly called axioms today) that are used in various branches of mathematics. There is also simply too much mathematical knowledge today to arrange it all in any sort of "flowchart" in any reasonable amount of space (even if you were to omit all definitions, etc. and assume that everyone knows all of the notation, which is often used with completely different meanings in different contexts). Even arranging the sum of current knowledge in relatively new branches of study would be a daunting task.
 
There are attempts at something like that, though. I can't seem to find it again but I once stumbled across an online logic derivation database, where a large part of basic math is derived straight from logical axioms and you can trace the derivations.
 
hmmm.. actually I was thinking something like Google Earth, but with axioms and derivations rather than a map of the globe. So you can zoom in and out depending on the detail your looking for. But it sounds like modern Mathematics is too disconnected for such a project. Metemath looks very interesting though. I'll have to spend some time looking into that. Thanks for the responces!
 
silverdiesel said:
You know how Euclid organized all geometry based on fundamental postulates. As I understand it, all of mathematics can be organized from fundamental postulates. If this is the case, is there a resource where you can see the posulates and listed below, derivations from those postulates. Not the entire derivations, just the conclusions, so you can get a visual picture of all mathematical knowledge. I know it sounds like a huge undertaking, but I was thinking that it could be acomplished on a website pretty easier than printing out such a list.


You might want to read about Godel's incompleteness theorems while you are at it. Any system capable of doing arithmetic will contain a statement that is true but unprovable from the axioms.
 
silverdiesel said:
hmmm.. actually I was thinking something like Google Earth, but with axioms and derivations rather than a map of the globe. So you can zoom in and out depending on the detail your looking for.

That would be an amazing project. I'd love to see something like that if it was created.
 
CRGreathouse said:
...or Metamath.
:smile: Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
 

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