All major cities should do this if it works

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential ecological impacts of a method used in Hollywood to control pigeon populations, with participants exploring the implications for other species, particularly endangered birds, and the broader ecosystem. The conversation touches on concerns about collateral damage and the need for further studies before implementation in other cities.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express interest in finding a similar method to control rat and mouse populations, questioning its feasibility and cost-effectiveness.
  • Concerns are raised about the unintended consequences of the method on other bird species, particularly endangered ones, if they consume the same food sources.
  • Participants highlight the need for studies to assess potential collateral damage to local ecosystems before implementing such methods in different cities.
  • There is uncertainty about the specific dietary habits of pigeons and how their removal might affect trash levels, insect populations, and other dependent species.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the overall effectiveness and thoughtfulness of the proposed idea, suggesting it may not have been thoroughly considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express concerns and skepticism regarding the proposed method's ecological impacts, with no consensus on its potential benefits or drawbacks. Multiple competing views remain about the feasibility and implications of the approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the lack of information regarding collateral damage in the original report and emphasize the need for localized studies to understand the ecological ramifications fully.

K.J.Healey
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070730/ap_on_sc/hollywood_pigeons;_ylt=Aps05PxEaRMwQ1_iWqisBBCs0NUE

I wonder if there is a similar way, that can be cheaply produced, to control rats/mice as well?
 
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And when other birds start eating from the feeders as well?

Maybe some endagered species, it would be nice to get rid of them too, huh?
 
That could pose a problem. How many endangered species of bird are there in downtown new york?
 
I don't know, but the report doesn't mention any consideration of collateral damage. Studies would have to be done for each city it was implemented in, to make sure you aren't harming other bird populations.
 
I'm concerned about the effects on other species too. I wonder if the thing only works on pigeons.

If the hormones enter watercourses they could affect a much wider area (& range of birds) than intended.
 
I agree. What do pidgeons feed on? Trash? Insects? Would then the trash in the city increase? The insect population? Do the pidgeons feed any other animals? Rats? Will other animals dependent on the pidgeon population become more invasive due to a changing eco system?

I guess we let hollywood try first and see what happens.
 
I don't think this is a particularly great idea for some of the reasons mentioned by others. Doesn't seem like too much thought went into the idea.
 
Healey01 said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070730/ap_on_sc/hollywood_pigeons;_ylt=Aps05PxEaRMwQ1_iWqisBBCs0NUE

I wonder if there is a similar way, that can be cheaply produced, to control rats/mice as well?
It interferes with hatching of eggs, so wouldn't be useful for mammals I don't think...but I'm not sure the mechanism, so it may interfere in some way with the oocytes...but if it can affect rats and mice, then it's also going to affect other mammals.

NeoDevin said:
And when other birds start eating from the feeders as well?

Maybe some endagered species, it would be nice to get rid of them too, huh?

NeoDevin said:
I don't know, but the report doesn't mention any consideration of collateral damage. Studies would have to be done for each city it was implemented in, to make sure you aren't harming other bird populations.

I'd be very concerned about the same thing. You have no control over what species land on rooftops. I don't know enough about this stuff, but it sounds like something that would affect any bird species that ingests it (and I really have no idea what effect it might have on any other species).
 
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