Analysis 2 , HELP with integrals

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    Analysis Integrals
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of integrals of continuous functions, specifically addressing the conditions under which the integral of a non-negative continuous function over a closed interval is greater than zero. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical justification related to continuity and integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that if a function f is continuous on [a,b] and non-negative, with f(p) > 0 for some p in [a,b], then the integral from a to b of f is greater than zero.
  • Another participant suggests that the task is to demonstrate the existence of a neighborhood around p where f is non-zero, relying on the definition of continuity.
  • A participant proposes using a "box" around p and selecting variables to the right and left of p as part of their reasoning.
  • One participant questions how the definition of continuity can be used to show that the integral is greater than zero, indicating a need for further clarification.
  • Another participant elaborates on the concept of non-zero volume around p and discusses the implications for upper and lower sums in relation to the integral.
  • One participant expresses doubt about the previous reasoning and introduces the idea of uniform continuity, attempting to apply a theorem related to least upper bounds to their argument.
  • This participant indicates they are struggling to demonstrate that a specific interval is above zero and how it relates to the overall integral over [a,b].

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of continuity to demonstrate the properties of the integral. There is no consensus on the best approach or the correctness of the arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on specific definitions and theorems that may not be universally accepted or may depend on additional assumptions not fully explored in the discussion.

Misswfish
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If f is continuous on [a,b], f(x) [tex]\geq[/tex] 0 for each x in [a,b] and there is a number p in [a,b] such that f(p) > 0, then [tex]\int[/tex] f dj > 0 ( Note : the integral is from a to b)
 
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Basically it is asking you to show that there is a neighborhood around p where f is non-zero. All you need for this is the definition of continuous.
 
well I thought about putting a "box" around it and picking variable to the right and left of p. Is that it?
 
That's pretty much it. Then just use the definition of continuous.
 
but how does the def of continuous show that the integral is greater than zero
 
Misswfish said:
but how does the def of continuous show that the integral is greater than zero

There is a non-zero volume [p-e, p+e] over which the function is everywhere non-zero (and non-negative) (show by continuity of f), so going back to partitions, the upper and lower sums will also be non-zero. The only reason for this to be true is that for some e-interval around p, the upper and lower sums (dependent on the product of infimums and supremums of f with the partition volumes) are non-zero and non-negative.
Now since you have shown it is non-zero on [p-e, p+e] for some e, and f is never negative, you know the integral over a larger interval cannot be less.
 
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ahhhhhh that doesn't sound right. I thought about using the definition of uniformaly continuous. I picked my eplision to be f(p)/2. I then used the theorem "Suppose S is a set of numbers and M is the least upper bound of S. If p is a number such that p< M , then there is an x in S such that p < x < or = M. Then I picked an q in (p-d, x) and a t in (x, p+d) then I have p-d<q<x<t<p+d. That is where I am stuck. I need to show that the interval of (q,t) is above zero and then show that for [a,b].
 

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