Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Another day, another (four) murdered in London

  1. Jul 11, 2008 #1

    cristo

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7501258.stm

    ... and it doesn't even make the front page of the news. Instead, BBC news leads with David Davis's joke by-election win.

    Is it just me, or is this situation getting pretty serious? 20 teenagers have been murdered this year in London, and every day we wake up an hear of someone else being a victim of knife crime. Or is this just a matter of the media reporting on this more, in an attempt to sway the government to take some action. Has this always been an issue?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 11, 2008 #2

    Art

    User Avatar

    Gov't statistics show the level of knife crime to be steady over the past several years. It has become the focus of media attention lately though with Sky News in particular crusading for tougher laws to clamp down on knife carrying thugs.

    To put it in perspective 20 fatal stabbings from a population of 7 million Londoners isn't exactly huge.
     
  4. Jul 11, 2008 #3

    cristo

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    But this isn't just 20 fatal stabbings, is it? It's 20 fatal stabbings of teenagers. Although, proportionately it's not a huge number, it's still something that's pretty serious, especially if you believe some of the things that these kids say in interviews. The gang culture in London is getting more and more popular, so I think it's about time the government do something about it!
     
  5. Jul 11, 2008 #4

    lisab

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I used to live in a city that was taken over by gangs almost overnight. The final straw for me came when an apartment down the block from me was bombed! Someone threw what was described as a quarter-stick of dynomite into an alcove, to discourage that person from selling drugs out of their apartment. The blast was unbelievable - it blew out the windows of a car parked across the street.

    Of course everyone called the police - and they never came! They were too busy with all the shootings happening elsewhere. I moved away right after that.

    But the cops regrouped and took on the gangs head-on. It took several years, but that city is essentially gang-free now.

    The cops in the area where these murders are happening have to get serious right away - this kind of thing can escalate incredibly fast. Sounds like it already has...
     
  6. Jul 11, 2008 #5
    For starters, they should pass a law limiting to 20 the number of murders of people between the ages of 13 and 19, inclusive, in the city of London. Once this is done, get back to me.
     
  7. Jul 11, 2008 #6

    cristo

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    I don't know about you, but I don't find this situation very funny.
     
  8. Jul 11, 2008 #7

    Art

    User Avatar

    It's teenagers who join gangs and carry knives so it is not surprising the victims are teenagers.

    The police have recently launched a stop and search operation which in a few days resulted in a few hundred arrests. One does wonder why the police aren't doing this on a regular basis rather than wait for Sky News to prompt them into action?? I suspect in the greater scheme of things the police do not see knife crime as a major problem and so not worthy of applying major resources to. A few months back all the media focus was on gun crime. Gun crime hasn't gone away but the news stations with their institutional ADD have moved onto a new latest crusade dragging the police behind them.

    Ross Kemp did a very good documentary on gang culture in major British cities and I agree it looks fairly dire but how does one tackle it? The aggressiveness of today's youth is a product of years of PC. When I was young growing up in an English city young people had a healthy respect and fear of adults. Any adult would feel quite entitled to clip some youngster around the head for misbehaving but then the PC brigade waded in. Adults who so much as laid a finger on unruly kids were prosecuted and so over time kids grew to know they could act with impunity and so became more and more unruly to the point where I see the situation now as irreversible.
     
  9. Jul 11, 2008 #8

    Art

    User Avatar

    According to the official crime statistics murder in England and Wales peaked in 2002/3 at a little over 1000 and has fallen quite sharply since then to 765 in 2005/2006 (including the 52 victims of the London bombings) which puts it on a par with the number of murders back in the early 90's. Given the not inconsiderable increase in Britain's population during this time the rate per capita has declined over time. This fall probably accounts for the police's slightly blase reaction to the current media hype around fatal stabbings.

    http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page40.asp
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  10. Jul 11, 2008 #9

    arildno

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member
    Dearly Missed

    Note that it is predominantly MUSLIM gang culture we are talking about..
     
  11. Jul 11, 2008 #10
    I know, I don't know what people are crying about, either.
     
  12. Jul 11, 2008 #11

    cristo

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    You don't know what people are crying about? Let me give you a clue: children are being murdered.
     
  13. Jul 11, 2008 #12
    Now, I wouldn't know this unless you told me. Doesn't the media point this out? Or is it not politically correct to show statistics when it involves a predominately religious portion of the community?
     
  14. Jul 11, 2008 #13

    f95toli

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Eh?

    I would say it is mainly an AMERICAN gang culture if you want to point to a specific cultural influence (which is an oversimplification). If you look at the clothes many of them wear, the music they listen to etc it is clearly influenced by the "gangsta" culture.
    In some ways British kids are probably more easily influenced by this than their US peers, mainly because most of them have no idea what it is like to REALLY be in an American gang or live in e.g. South Central; they just think the culture is "cool".
    But, again, this is an oversimplification. There is no single "cause" of this.

    Also, this is nothing new and society as a whole is actually getting less violent in most countries; but we just notice the violence more than in the past due to the 24/7 media coverage. The effect is that while most people are safer they don't feel safer and act (and vote) accordingly.

    Moreover, we need to be a bit cynical: 20 teenagers in a city of 7 million is actually not much, compare this number to the number of teenagers that e.g. commited suicide,died in car accident etc
     
  15. Jul 11, 2008 #14
    Not children. Teenagers. Sub-human mounds of flesh that operate with a pack mentality and inhale food to turn it into angst and nihilism. It's about time we had a culling of them.
     
  16. Jul 11, 2008 #15

    Art

    User Avatar

    Arildno just made that statistic up off the top of his head for some unknown reason. Pathetic!! :rolleyes:
     
  17. Jul 11, 2008 #16

    Art

    User Avatar

    Perhaps they need role models such as yourself to guide them in acquiring characteristics such as tolerance and humanitarianism :rofl:
     
  18. Jul 11, 2008 #17

    cristo

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor

    Wow! So you were never a teenager then? Sorry, but with comments like this it is impossible to take anything you say seriously.
     
  19. Jul 11, 2008 #18
    That's probably for the best.
     
  20. Jul 12, 2008 #19
    Nor do the vast majority of American kids have any idea what it is really like. They listen to 'gangsta' rap, watch MTV, wear baggy clothes and 'bling' but have probably never met a real 'gansta' in their entire lives.
    Also 'American' gang culture is a so called melting pot too. There are gangs from all different cultures around here. Hispanics, asians, samoans, ect.
    I'd hazard the guess that the vast majority of the 'american' style ganstas you see are doing nothing more that trying to look cool.
     
  21. Jul 13, 2008 #20
    there is a worldwide problem with teenagers, and i dont know why.
    in britan, you have 3 types of muslim teenagers
    1. the kewl gangsta boyz who all want to beat people up because they arent muslims, hang around street corners and be stupid in general.
    2. the radicals.
    3. everyone else.

    i think the problem is with the genral degredation of respect and manners. teenagers feel pointless, and need a sense of identity. they dont have any outline for what they want to do with their lives. or maybe its because of gangsta culture, which as TheStatutoryApe makes teens look up to idiots who are quite pointless and immature. probably its because of a mix of things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2008
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Another day, another (four) murdered in London
  1. Another Interesting (Replies: 2)

  2. Terror murder in London (Replies: 85)

Loading...