Ant on a rubber rope problem confusion

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the "Ant on a Rubber Rope" problem, specifically the analytic solution presented in a Wikipedia article. The formula for the speed of a point on a uniformly expanding rope, given as ##\frac{vX}{c+vt}##, is challenged by a user who argues that it inaccurately represents the motion of a point initially at distance ##X##. The user derives an alternative expression, ##X(t)=(c+vt)\frac{X}{c}##, leading to a different speed equation, ##X'(t)=\frac{Xv}{c}##. The conversation concludes with an acknowledgment of the misunderstanding regarding the application of the formula.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of calculus, particularly derivatives and functions.
  • Familiarity with the concept of uniform expansion in physics.
  • Knowledge of the "Ant on a Rubber Rope" problem and its implications.
  • Basic grasp of ratios and their application in motion problems.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the "Ant on a Rubber Rope" problem to clarify the motion of points on an expanding medium.
  • Explore the implications of uniform expansion in physics, particularly in relation to motion and speed.
  • Learn about differential equations and their applications in modeling dynamic systems.
  • Investigate other mathematical paradoxes in physics to enhance problem-solving skills.
USEFUL FOR

Students of physics, mathematicians, and anyone interested in the complexities of motion in expanding systems will benefit from this discussion.

Kumar8434
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I was reading this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_on_a_rubber_rope

In the analytic solution section, it says that, at time ##t##, a point at ##x=X##, i.e. initially at a distance ##X## from the starting fixed point on a uniformly expanding rope moves with a speed ##\frac{vX}{c+vt}##, where ##c## is the length of the rope and ##v## is the speed with which the end point moves.

I don't think that is correct. Suppose the distance of the point A initially distance ##X## from the starting point O at a time ##t## is given by the function ##X(t)##. The end point E is initially at ##x=c## and since it is moving at a speed ##v## so at time ##t## the end point is at ##c(t)=c+vt##. Also, since the rope is uniformly expanding so the ratio ##\frac{OA}{OE}## must be maintained. This ratio is initially ##\frac{X}{c}##.

So, ##\frac{X(t)}{c(t)}=\frac{X}{c}##
##\frac{X(t)}{c+vt}=\frac{X}{c}##
So, ##X(t)=(c+vt)\frac{X}{c}##
which gives ##X'(t)=\frac{Xv}{c} \neq \frac{vX}{c+vt}## as mentioned in the article. Did I do something wrong?
Also, I don't think the speeds of the points on a uniformly expanding rope can depend on time because it would mean the points are accelerating.
In the article, it is mentioned in the solution to the problem that fraction of the rope that the ant moves in a time ##t## is preserved regardless of the expansion of the rope. So, ##\frac{OA}{OE}## must be the same for all points O's even if the rope expands with time.
 
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Kumar8434 said:
In the analytic solution section, it says that, at time ##t##, a point at ##x=X##, i.e. initially at a distance ##X## from the starting fixed point on a uniformly expanding rope moves with a speed ##\frac{vX}{c+vt}##, where ##c## is the length of the rope and ##v## is the speed with which the end point moves.
The formula does not apply to a point initially at X. It applies to a point currently at X.
 
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jbriggs444 said:
The formula does not apply to a point initially at X. It applies to a point currently at X.
Oh, thanks a lot. Terrible mistake.
 
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