[Anti] Matter In The Early Universe - Over Complicated?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around theories regarding the existence of matter and antimatter in the early universe, specifically addressing why matter did not annihilate with antimatter despite their presumed equal quantities. Participants explore concepts related to inflation, particle physics, and the implications of antimatter's absence in observable phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that inflation could have separated matter and antimatter quickly enough to prevent annihilation, suggesting they were too far apart to interact.
  • Others argue that there are various speculative models where matter and antimatter may repel each other or have different gravitational behaviors, questioning the necessity of such models given the standard model's predictions of asymmetry.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the inflation theory, questioning the whereabouts of the antimatter if equal amounts existed, and why it is not observed today.
  • Concerns are raised about the detection of distant galaxies potentially being antimatter, with suggestions of using neutrino emissions and particle shower ratios as possible indicators.
  • Another participant notes that the absence of observed interactions between matter and antimatter galaxies suggests either their non-existence or unusual repulsive properties.
  • One participant mentions that experiments at CERN aim to investigate the gravitational behavior of antimatter, which could yield significant insights if differences are found.
  • It is noted that while there could be distant antimatter galaxies, the lack of anti-helium and anti-iron nuclei in cosmic rays presents stringent limits on their existence.
  • The PAMELA satellite experiment's findings on the anti-proton to proton flux ratio are discussed, indicating no substantial evidence for antimatter galaxies.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the distinction between antiprotons and other antimatter nuclei, emphasizing that no antihelium has been detected.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the existence of antimatter galaxies or the validity of various theoretical models. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of current observations and theoretical predictions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on current observational data, the speculative nature of proposed models, and the unresolved status of certain theoretical claims regarding matter-antimatter interactions.

3CKPilot
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Is it possible that particle physics is over complicating theories about why all the matter in the early universe didn't annihilate, even though equal amounts of matter and antimatter existed? Is it possible that inflation happened quickly enough that antimatter and matter were blown clear of each other, and were too far away from each other to re-attract and annihilate?
 
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Yes, there are peculiar models in which matter and antimatter repel each other. There are even models in which matter attracts antimatter but antimatter repels matter. Many ideas, all speculations... Why would you need them if the standard model tells you there must be an asymmetry between what we call antimatter and matter ? Is it not to best investigate whether simple things which we have established can explain the observed asymmetry ? Although we do not have a general agreement on what produced this asymmetry, there are already many models predicting it without modifying fundamental principles. In any case, exotic scenarios are investigated as well, such as scalar-tensor gravitational theories, although there main motivation is not matter-antimatter asymmetry.
 
3CKPilot said:
Is it possible that particle physics is over complicating theories about why all the matter in the early universe didn't annihilate, even though equal amounts of matter and antimatter existed? Is it possible that inflation happened quickly enough that antimatter and matter were blown clear of each other, and were too far away from each other to re-attract and annihilate?

I don't see how this would explain what we see today. If they didn't annihilate, then where ARE the other half? These antimatter of equal amount to our matter should still be around and should be plainly observed. We know how to detect them, and we can detect signatures of their presence. There should be planets made of them the same way we have for matter.

So where are they?

Zz.
 
How do we know that say, a distant galaxy is not anti-matter? (I'm not suggesting that one is at all, just wondering what detection matters we actually have) Neutrino emissions from beta decays that shower us from that direction? I can't think of much else, maybe pion +- shower ratios or other particle shower rations from known stellar/galaxial reactions.
 
K.J.Healey said:
How do we know that say, a distant galaxy is not anti-matter? (I'm not suggesting that one is at all, just wondering what detection matters we actually have) Neutrino emissions from beta decays that shower us from that direction? I can't think of much else, maybe pion +- shower ratios or other particle shower rations from known stellar/galaxial reactions.
As we look around us, we see many galaxies interacting with one another, including collisions that leave one another tidally distorted. If an antimatter galaxy (with intergalactic antimatter dust and gases) collided with a normal galaxy, we'd be in for a pretty big show. The absence of such observations suggests that either antimatter galaxies do not exist or (highly unlikely) that they repel galaxies made of normal matter. Experimenters at CERN intend to test the Weak Equivalence Principle using cold neutral antihydrogen to determine if the gravitational infall rates of matter and antimatter are the same. If the infall rates are not the same, that would be an interesting result.
 
It is possible that there are antimatter galaxies very far away, and the sort of interaction that Turbo-1 describes is hard to see because it gets swallowed up in the diffuse x-ray background. However, in such a case we would expect to see anti-helium and anti-iron nuclei in primary cosmic rays, and every such for them has come up empty. These are the most stringent limits we have.
 
The PAMELA satellite experiment (Payload for Antimatter Exploration and Light-nuclei Astrophysics) recently reported a measurement showing that the anti-proton to proton flux ratio in cosmic rays is about 2 x 10-4 .
See attached PDF.
 

Attachments

Antiprotons are not anti-helium or anti-iron nuclei.
 
Correct. No antihelium was seen. In fact the antiproton yield (see my reply #7) is consistent with antiproton production by very high energy (mostly ordinary proton) cosmic rays colliding with interstellar gas. So no real evidence for antigalaxies yet.
 

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