Why we have 4-5% matter, given most m/anti-m annihilate to photons

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the composition of the universe, specifically the proportions of matter, antimatter, and photons, and how these relate to the observed 4-5% of normal matter. Participants explore the implications of matter-antimatter annihilation and the role of photons in the early universe, questioning how these factors contribute to the current understanding of cosmic energy distribution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that for every billion antimatter particles, one additional matter particle is needed, leading to a calculation of energy percentages carried by photons.
  • Another participant notes that the reported 4-5% of normal matter does not significantly include photons, which they estimate contribute only about 0.005% to the energy density.
  • A different participant mentions that primordial particles were likely in thermal equilibrium, implying that any excess energy in photons would have been distributed among the plasma, suggesting few primordial photons remain today.
  • It is stated that photons dominated the energy content during matter-antimatter annihilations, but as the universe expands, photons lose energy while matter retains its rest energy, complicating the understanding of energy density over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of photons in the energy composition of the universe and whether they should be included in the 4-5% of normal matter. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the implications of matter-antimatter interactions and the fate of primordial photons.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about thermal equilibrium and the distribution of energy among particles are mentioned, but these are not fully explored or agreed upon. The discussion also highlights the complexity of energy density changes due to cosmic expansion.

garyfang
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For every one billion anti-matters in the universe, there needs only one billion and one matter particle counter-parts to create the universe today.

Don't we also know that they annihilate into photons?

Following that logic, can't we assume 2billion/(2billion+1) is the percentage of energies carried by photons in the universe? Photon's can't decay can't they? They do collide and create matter and anti-matter pairs, but what are the chances of that and the percentage of that happening. The universe is also expanding, so as time goes by, the likely hood of colliding photons are decreasing not increasing. Moreover, pairs of matters and anti-matters created this way would be likely be annihilated again, into photons.

Now, there is a model saying there is 4-5% of visible matters that we understand, and 23% are dark matters while the rest are dark energies we don't understand. Does this 4-5% include photons?
If yes, why is it so low when we knew matters and anti-matter annihilated each other into photons in the early universe? Isn't energies carried by photos included into this 4-5% of known universe?
If no, how is it even possible to have 4% given only 1/2,000,000,001 matters didn't annihilated long time ago.
 
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Now, there is a model saying there is 4-5% of visible matters that we understand, and 23% are dark matters while the rest are dark energies we don't understand.
The latest recipe as reported by the AMS experiment is 4.9 % normal matter, 26.8 % dark matter, 68.3 % dark energy.

Does this 4-5% include photons?
The energy density due to photons is much smaller - maybe 0.005 %
 
I do not know the detailed answer to this, but it is my understanding that the particles in the primordial plasma were believed to be in something close to thermal equilibrium. The matter/energy density numbers reported based on the CMB measurements make this assumption I believe. So if a vast excess of energy was dumped into photons then the photons would quickly distribute this energy amongst the rest of the plasma. You would thus not expect there to be some giant number of primordial photons still flying around today.
 
At the time of matter/antimatter-annihilations, photons dominated the energy content of the universe.
They do not decay, but they lose energy as the universe expands, as this increases the wavelength of those photons. The energy of matter is basically the rest energy of those particles, and stays constant during expansion. The energy density of dark energy is (probably) constant, while matter and photons get spread out more and more.
 

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