Apollo moon landing remnants ?

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  • #26
alxm
Science Advisor
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They found the Soviet Lunokhod 2 lander just recently as well.

(Of course, the Soviets being such humble folks only faked an unmanned probe.)
 
  • #27
alt
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There's an old saying;

"Watch what they do, not what they say"

I find this aphorism to be quite handy - invaluable sometimes, when trying to come to the truth of some matter.

Putting aside all the evidence pro moon landing, it is interesting to ask the question;

"If it was a hoax, OK, fair enough - they did it once. Why though, would they do it again and again and again" ..

Surely they wouldn't push their luck that far ? If they hoaxexd it to beat the Ruskies, or for international prestige, etc, what need was there for them to hoax it repeatedly ?

There's another saying;

"Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me"

It is beyond reason, even at the lunatic fringe, that people would believe in multiple, repeated hoaxes. And this, in itself, is a fascinating mystery to me.

Surely the hoax adherents would have had to confront this question. How do they answer it to themselves ? I''ve hunted around web sites recently, trying to find how they answer this question, but can't find much.

Anyone have any idea ?
 
  • #28
baywax
Gold Member
1,940
1
There's an old saying;

"Watch what they do, not what they say"

I find this aphorism to be quite handy - invaluable sometimes, when trying to come to the truth of some matter.

Putting aside all the evidence pro moon landing, it is interesting to ask the question;

"If it was a hoax, OK, fair enough - they did it once. Why though, would they do it again and again and again" ..

Surely they wouldn't push their luck that far ? If they hoaxexd it to beat the Ruskies, or for international prestige, etc, what need was there for them to hoax it repeatedly ?

There's another saying;

"Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me"

It is beyond reason, even at the lunatic fringe, that people would believe in multiple, repeated hoaxes. And this, in itself, is a fascinating mystery to me.

Surely the hoax adherents would have had to confront this question. How do they answer it to themselves ? I''ve hunted around web sites recently, trying to find how they answer this question, but can't find much.

Anyone have any idea ?
Re: Hoax adherents. These are a form of skeptic. In some cultures, skepticism is healthy.

In fact, during the second world war there was an elaborate hoax used to fool the Nazis where fake tanks and jeeps were built out of cardboard and plywood to take attention away from the actual launch site of D day. My dad made it through all of that quite probably because of this hoax.
 
  • #29
Borek
Mentor
28,566
3,021
Re: Hoax adherents. These are a form of skeptic. In some cultures, skepticism is healthy.

In fact, during the second world war there was an elaborate hoax used to fool the Nazis where fake tanks and jeeps were built out of cardboard and plywood to take attention away from the actual launch site of D day. My dad made it through all of that quite probably because of this hoax.
Do you think we plan to invade Mars from Venus, and whatever we put on the Moon was just to confuse Martians?
 
  • #30
baywax
Gold Member
1,940
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Do you think we plan to invade Mars from Venus, and whatever we put on the Moon was just to confuse Martians?
I'm not telling. You look a bit like one of the Neptunian Empire's SS handy men.

All joking aside, I'm very glad to see these images of the leftovers on the moon. Very cool, very tiny and far away, but very cool. What's interesting is these photos are clearer than anything "Richard Hoagland" or any of his crew have come out with regarding alien bases on the moon and mars... etc... those pics are really quite far fetched and mostly come together only when the text is read along side the photoshop... er... photos.
 
  • #31
699
6
There is another type of remnant that we left on the moon. That is, scientific instruments. In particular, there are optical reflectors that are used to reflect lasers aimed from the earth observatories. This allows accurate distance measurements with precision of a few inches.

In a sense, these are the most visible artifacts on the moon. Of course, it takes very specialized equipment and techniques to make these measurements.

In principle, a skeptical scientist could do the calculations and supervise a measurement. An intelligent person would be able to see that only special high reflectance mirrors designed to direct light back to the source (i.e. corner mirrors) would allow sensitive enough reception of a reflected laser.

Well, the average person doesn't have the clout to be allowed to supervise, but this goes back to what the previos poster (alt) said about observing actions. Why would hoaxters claim to install an observable mirror? Would this not then require that all astronomers at observatories be in on the hoax?
 
  • #32
baywax
Gold Member
1,940
1
There is another type of remnant that we left on the moon. That is, scientific instruments. In particular, there are optical reflectors that are used to reflect lasers aimed from the earth observatories. This allows accurate distance measurements with precision of a few inches.

In a sense, these are the most visible artifacts on the moon. Of course, it takes very specialized equipment and techniques to make these measurements.

In principle, a skeptical scientist could do the calculations and supervise a measurement. An intelligent person would be able to see that only special high reflectance mirrors designed to direct light back to the source (i.e. corner mirrors) would allow sensitive enough reception of a reflected laser.

Well, the average person doesn't have the clout to be allowed to supervise, but this goes back to what the previos poster (alt) said about observing actions. Why would hoaxters claim to install an observable mirror? Would this not then require that all astronomers at observatories be in on the hoax?
Good point Steven.

I remember that when the lunar lander touched down there was a report that there was a continuous "echo" happening afterwards that was monitored by some of the instruments that were placed. They speculated that he moon was hollow. Since then there's been better information but I've missed most of it. Is the moon hollow? Or is this misinformation as well?
 
  • #33
107
0
There's an old saying;

"Watch what they do, not what they say"

I find this aphorism to be quite handy - invaluable sometimes, when trying to come to the truth of some matter.

Putting aside all the evidence pro moon landing, it is interesting to ask the question;

"If it was a hoax, OK, fair enough - they did it once. Why though, would they do it again and again and again" ..

Surely they wouldn't push their luck that far ? If they hoaxexd it to beat the Ruskies, or for international prestige, etc, what need was there for them to hoax it repeatedly ?

There's another saying;

"Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me"

It is beyond reason, even at the lunatic fringe, that people would believe in multiple, repeated hoaxes. And this, in itself, is a fascinating mystery to me.

Surely the hoax adherents would have had to confront this question. How do they answer it to themselves ? I''ve hunted around web sites recently, trying to find how they answer this question, but can't find much.

Anyone have any idea ?
I'm a non moon landing hoaxer, but anyways, I can find no more reason to actually go to the moon more than once, than I can to hoax it more than once. Also, a good motive would be to get the funding. If it was a hoax, it would actually explain the irrationality of repeated moon trips given the cost associated, and what accomplished, basically bragging rights.
 
  • #34
alt
Gold Member
202
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I'm a non moon landing hoaxer, but anyways, I can find no more reason to actually go to the moon more than once, than I can to hoax it more than once. Also, a good motive would be to get the funding. If it was a hoax, it would actually explain the irrationality of repeated moon trips given the cost associated, and what accomplished, basically bragging rights.
Bragging rights ? Don't you think others, China, Russia, etc, would have had the evidence and ability to rain on their parade ? Particularly after multiple such 'hoaxes' ?

(don't tell me - they were in on ot too ?)
 
  • #35
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0
I'm just saying that you aren't going to stump any MLH's with "why would they hoax it more than once?"

The apollo programs ended up costing an estimated 170 billion (2005) dollars. That's quite a motive. If your a MLH'er, and your looking for a motive, money would be a good one. If you consider this as a motive in your plot, then repeated hoaxes would fit. Maybe if you were creative about it, you could throw in some kind of ulterior military motive using the payload, and funding, for a black project. All in all, it would make for a good movie.
 
  • #36
alt
Gold Member
202
0
I'm just saying that you aren't going to stump any MLH's with "why would they hoax it more than once?"

The apollo programs ended up costing an estimated 170 billion (2005) dollars. That's quite a motive. If your a MLH'er, and your looking for a motive, money would be a good one. If you consider this as a motive in your plot, then repeated hoaxes would fit. Maybe if you were creative about it, you could throw in some kind of ulterior military motive using the payload, and funding, for a black project. All in all, it would make for a good movie.
I see what you're saying. For a moment there, you had me thinking you were on the MLH camp.

$170B in 2005 dollars ? Cheap, compared to the multi billions / trillions farmed out of late.

Well, how do you suppose they get around the proposition that other countries, China and Russia in the main, would have had no motive to keep quite, and every motive to expose the 'fake' moon landings. After all, imagine what prestige THAT would have resulted in, for the country doing the exposing.

How do the MLH's get around that one ? Anyone know ?

PS - I have tried to find some answer to that myself, but haven't been able to, and see it as possibly the most glaring ommission in the MLH's story.
 
  • #37
Ivan Seeking
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
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Moon landing hoax theories are not discussed here.
 

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