Approximating Solutions with Coefficients of $Y^m_\ell$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around approximating solutions using coefficients of spherical harmonics, specifically focusing on the expression for the function \( u(r,\theta,\phi) \). Participants explore the combination of terms derived from spherical harmonics for different values of \( \ell \) and \( m \), and how these contribute to the overall approximation. The context includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanations related to spherical harmonics and their application in a physical scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants present an approximation for \( u(r,\theta,\phi) \) as \( 25 + \frac{75\sqrt{2}}{2}r\sin\theta\cos\phi + \frac{125}{\pi}r^2\sin^2\theta\cos 2\phi \) based on coefficients from spherical harmonics.
  • Participants discuss the coefficients for various \( \ell \) and \( m \) values, including \( Y^0_0 \), \( Y^1_1 \), \( Y^0_1 \), \( Y^2_2 \), and others, detailing their forms and implications for the approximation.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the absence of an exponential factor in the function, noting that the constant term relates to \( \psi_{000} \) which typically includes such a factor.
  • Another participant mentions the need to use spherical harmonics in the solution, indicating that this was not clear from the question's wording.
  • There are discussions about expanding the "missing" exponential and whether this approach is valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and seek clarification on the problem, indicating a lack of consensus on how to approach the combination of terms. While some participants seem to arrive at a solution, others remain uncertain about the methodology and the implications of the spherical harmonics involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem involves integrating wavefunctions and that the absence of certain factors (like the exponential decay in wavefunctions) complicates the approximation process. There are also references to the need for clarity in the problem's wording regarding the use of spherical harmonics.

Dustinsfl
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Using the coefficients determined, combine the terms to arrive at the following approximation for the solution
$$
u(r,\theta,\phi)\simeq 25 + \frac{75\sqrt{2}}{2}r\sin\theta\cos\phi + \frac{125}{\pi}r^2\sin^2\theta\cos 2\phi.
$$

How do I combine them?

The coefficients are
For $\ell = 0$ and $m = 0$, we have
$$
Y^0_0(\theta,\varphi) = \frac{1}{2\sqrt{\pi}}.
$$
For $\ell = 1$ and $m = 1$, we have
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{1}_1 & = & -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\frac{3}{2\pi}}(\cos^2\theta - 1)^{1/2}e^{i\varphi}\\
& = & -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\frac{3}{2\pi}}e^{i\varphi} \sin\theta
\end{alignat*}
From $\ell = 1$ and $m = 1$, we can obtain
$$
Y^{-1}_1 = \frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\frac{3}{2\pi}}e^{-i\varphi}\sin \theta.
$$
For $\ell = 1$ and $m = 0$, we have
$$
Y^0_1 = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2\sqrt{\pi}}\cos\theta.
$$
For $\ell = 2$ and $m = 2$, we have
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{2}_2 & = & \frac{3}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}(\cos^2\theta - 1)e^{2i\varphi}\\
& = & \frac{3}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{2i\varphi}\sin^2\theta
\end{alignat*}
From $\ell = 2$ and $m = 2$, we can obtain
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{-2}_2 & = & \frac{3}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{-2i\varphi}\sin^2 \theta.
\end{alignat*}
For $\ell = 2$ and $m = 1$, we have
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{1}_2 & = & -\frac{3}{2}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{i\varphi}(\cos^2\theta - 1)^{1/2}\cos\theta\\
& = & -\frac{3}{2}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{i\varphi}\sin \theta \cos\theta
\end{alignat*}
From $\ell = 2$ and $m = 1$, we can obtain
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{-1}_2 & = & \frac{3}{2}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{-i\varphi}\sin \theta \cos\theta.
\end{alignat*}
For $\ell = 2$ and $m = 0$, we have
$$
Y^0_{\ell} = \frac{1}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{2\pi}}(3\cos^2\theta - 1).
$$
 
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dwsmith said:
Using the coefficients determined, combine the terms to arrive at the following approximation for the solution
$$
u(r,\theta,\phi)\simeq 25 + \frac{75\sqrt{2}}{2}r\sin\theta\cos\phi + \frac{125}{\pi}r^2\sin^2\theta\cos 2\phi.
$$

How do I combine them?

The coefficients are
For $\ell = 0$ and $m = 0$, we have
$$
Y^0_0(\theta,\varphi) = \frac{1}{2\sqrt{\pi}}.
$$
For $\ell = 1$ and $m = 1$, we have
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{1}_1 & = & -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\frac{3}{2\pi}}(\cos^2\theta - 1)^{1/2}e^{i\varphi}\\
& = & -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\frac{3}{2\pi}}e^{i\varphi} \sin\theta
\end{alignat*}
From $\ell = 1$ and $m = 1$, we can obtain
$$
Y^{-1}_1 = \frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\frac{3}{2\pi}}e^{-i\varphi}\sin \theta.
$$
For $\ell = 1$ and $m = 0$, we have
$$
Y^0_1 = \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2\sqrt{\pi}}\cos\theta.
$$
For $\ell = 2$ and $m = 2$, we have
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{2}_2 & = & \frac{3}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}(\cos^2\theta - 1)e^{2i\varphi}\\
& = & \frac{3}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{2i\varphi}\sin^2\theta
\end{alignat*}
From $\ell = 2$ and $m = 2$, we can obtain
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{-2}_2 & = & \frac{3}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{-2i\varphi}\sin^2 \theta.
\end{alignat*}
For $\ell = 2$ and $m = 1$, we have
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{1}_2 & = & -\frac{3}{2}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{i\varphi}(\cos^2\theta - 1)^{1/2}\cos\theta\\
& = & -\frac{3}{2}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{i\varphi}\sin \theta \cos\theta
\end{alignat*}
From $\ell = 2$ and $m = 1$, we can obtain
\begin{alignat*}{3}
Y^{-1}_2 & = & \frac{3}{2}\sqrt{\frac{5}{6\pi}}e^{-i\varphi}\sin \theta \cos\theta.
\end{alignat*}
For $\ell = 2$ and $m = 0$, we have
$$
Y^0_{\ell} = \frac{1}{4}\sqrt{\frac{5}{2\pi}}(3\cos^2\theta - 1).
$$
I'm a bit confused about this one. The problem is very similar to using the dot product to separate terms. The usual
c_{nlm} = \int \psi^*_{nlm} u(r, \theta, \phi)~ d \tau

For example, the constant term is going deal with \psi _{000} since there are no radial or angular terms. But even \psi _{000} is going to contain a e^{-Zr/a_0} factor (assuming a Hydrogen-like wavefunction for the radial part) and there is no exponential factor in your function.

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
I'm a bit confused about this one. The problem is very similar to using the dot product to separate terms. The usual
c_{nlm} = \int \psi^*_{nlm} u(r, \theta, \phi)~ d \tau

For example, the constant term is going deal with \psi _{000} since there are no radial or angular terms. But even \psi _{000} is going to contain a e^{-Zr/a_0} factor (assuming a Hydrogen-like wavefunction for the radial part) and there is no exponential factor in your function.

-Dan

I am confuse too. I am not sure what I am supposed to do but that is the question verbatim.
 
dwsmith said:
I am confuse too. I am not sure what I am supposed to do but that is the question verbatim.
I figure it out.
 
dwsmith said:
I figure it out.
I'm curious about your solution. Could you post the general idea? (I had a thought this morning about expanding the "missing" exponential. I'm wondering if that was the right approach.)

-Dan
 
topsquark said:
I'm curious about your solution. Could you post the general idea? (I had a thought this morning about expanding the "missing" exponential. I'm wondering if that was the right approach.)

-Dan

I also had to use the spherical harmonics of the solution which wasn't apparent to me by the questions wording.

We ca expand our series out term by term
\begin{alignat*}{3}
u(r,\theta,\varphi) & = & \sum_{\ell = 0}^2\sum_{m = -\ell}^{\ell} A_{\ell,m}Y^m_{\ell}(\theta,\varphi).
\end{alignat*}
For $\ell = 0$, we have that $u(r,\theta,\varphi) = 25$.
For $\ell = 1$, we have that $u(r,\theta,\varphi) = 25 + r\frac{75}{\sqrt{2}}\sin\theta\frac{e^{i\varphi} + e^{-i\varphi}}{2}$.
Lastly, for $\ell = 2$, we have
$$
u(r,\theta,\varphi) = 25 + \frac{75r}{\sqrt{2}}\sin\theta\cos\varphi + \frac{125r^2}{\pi}\sin^2\theta\cos 2\varphi = 25 + \frac{75\sqrt{2}}{2}r\sin\theta\cos\phi + \frac{125}{\pi}r^2\sin^2\theta\cos 2\phi.
$$
That is, we can approximate $u(r,\theta,\varphi)$ when $\ell = 0,1,2$ to be
$$
u(r,\theta,\phi)\simeq 25 + \frac{75\sqrt{2}}{2}r\sin\theta\cos\phi + \frac{125}{\pi}r^2\sin^2\theta\cos 2\phi.
$$
 

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