Arc length of intersecting circles

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the length of an arc of intersecting circles, specifically focusing on the curve defined by |z|=r, where r<1. The original poster references a formula from a text on analytic number theory and seeks to understand its application in the context of geometry involving circles and arcs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various geometric interpretations and mathematical identities, including the law of sines and cosines. There is an attempt to derive the arc length using trigonometric relationships, with some questioning the validity of the provided formula and considering alternative estimates.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing different perspectives on the problem. Some express skepticism about the original formula and suggest focusing on estimates instead. There is an ongoing exploration of how to relate the sine function to the arc length and the implications of approximations near certain values.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential errors in the textbook and the complexity of the problem, which has led to confusion and differing interpretations. The discussion includes references to the need for clarity on approximations and the conditions under which they apply.

ArcanaNoir
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Homework Statement


My class is working through chapter 2 of Newman's Analytic Number Theory text (on partitions). We have come to a part where he states that "elementary geometry gives the formula" (for the length of arc A) 4r\text{arcsin}\frac{\sqrt(2)(1-r)}{\sqrt(r)}

We are attempting to find an integral over the curve |z|=r, where r<1, and specifically at this moment we want the length of the arc of our curve where |x|=r and \frac{|1-z|}{1-|z|}\le 3.

I have attached a picture from someone's master's thesis that shows the curves in question. The circle inside the unit circle is the circle |z|=r, and the circle on the right I believe to be the circle |z-1|=3(1-r). We need the length of the arc of |z|=r that is inside the right hand circle.

Homework Equations



Law of sines, law of cosines, any trig identities, Pythagorean theorem, any trig/geometry.

The Attempt at a Solution



I have tried making triangles every which way to no avail and my professor was unable to resolve this problem in the half-hour or so that he worked on it with me. We will be going through this part of the chapter in class soon and I will be presenting. I'm not expected to be able to explain this but it would be nice for everyone in the class if we could see how it is done.

I came sort of close by pretending that the circle |z|=r intersected the center of the right hand circle. Using the law of sines and trig identities I got that the length of the arc in question would be 4r\text{arcsin}\frac{3(1-r)}{2r}
It is also possible that the given solution contains some error, as this textbook is notoriously error-ridden.
 

Attachments

  • numthyarc.jpg
    numthyarc.jpg
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)pdate: one of my professors has basically dismissed the formula given in the chapter, and instead is focusing on the needed estimate, that the length of A is O(1-r). I don't really see why. He said (something like) \sin(\theta)&lt;3(1-r) implies this. I may have misinterpreted his statements as he talks kind of fast so here's what I'm thinking:

Lets let theta be x for ease of typing. Now sin(x)=opposite/hypotenuse. The hypotenuse is r and the height (the "opposite" side) is less than 3(1-r). So sin(x)<3(1-r)/r. So x<arcsin(3(1-r)/r). Then the length is less than 2r*arcsin(3(1-r)/r). How is this O(1-r)?
 
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Here is a picture with the triangle that I think might be relevant. The arc A is the arc of the inner circle that is inside the left hand circle.
My professor told me that for values near 0, sin(x) and arcsin(x) are approxiately x, and that is why we can estimate arcsin(3(1-r)) as O(1-r) (because r is near 1).
 

Attachments

  • numthy2.jpg
    numthy2.jpg
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I don't see anywhere in the OP that provides a basis for an approximation.
I agree with the last diagram you posted. Application of the cosine rule gives a quadratic equation involving r and cos theta, so a natural equation for the arc length involves arc cos rather than arc sin. I tried converting it to arc sin form but got nothing like the expression in the OP.
 

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