Are any electrons ejected below the threshold frequency?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the photoelectric effect, specifically questioning whether electrons can be ejected from a metal surface when illuminated by light with a frequency below the threshold frequency. Participants explore the implications of multiple photons interacting with a single electron and the conditions under which this might occur.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if multiple photons hit the same electron, their energies might accumulate to liberate the electron, raising questions about the probability of this occurring and the role of light intensity.
  • Another participant asserts that there is essentially no chance for electrons to be liberated in this manner, referencing a theoretical process called spontaneous parametric up conversion, which requires specific conditions not met in this scenario.
  • A later reply mentions that multi-photon processes do occur, particularly with pulsed CO2 lasers, providing references to support this claim.
  • One participant quotes a reference indicating that certain atoms require multiple photons to be absorbed for ionization, aligning with the earlier discussion about the necessity of multiple photon interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the possibility of electron liberation through the accumulation of photon energies. While some acknowledge the theoretical framework for multi-photon processes, others argue that the specific conditions for such processes are not met in the context of the original question, leaving the discussion unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of photon interactions with electrons and the conditions required for multi-photon ionization, which may not be applicable in all scenarios. The references provided suggest that while multi-photon processes are possible, they depend on specific experimental setups.

lawlieto
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I've been reading about the photoelectric effect, and something got me thinking. If the frequency of light shone onto the metal is below the threshold frequency, no electrons are liberated from the surface of the metal, since electrons absorb quanta of energy, so if that light is shone for a long time, energy wouldn't be absorbed on a continuous basis etc.. but, what if 2 or 3 consecutive photons hit the same electron? Wouldn't the energies absorbed from those 2-3 photons accumulate so that an electron is liberated?

Or is there a very little probability for that to happen? (but then we could increase the intensity of light ie more photons emitted so that gives a higher probability)
Or does the energy for liberation has to be absorbed all at once? If that is the case, what happens to the photons? Are photons still absorbed if they're not energetic enough? (In that case I don't see why the energy from consecutive photons accumulated wouldn't liberate an electron)
 
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lawlieto said:
...what if 2 or 3 consecutive photons hit the same electron? Wouldn't the energies absorbed from those 2-3 photons accumulate so that an electron is liberated?... Or is there a very little probability for that to happen? (but then we could increase the intensity of light ie more photons emitted so that gives a higher probability)

There is essentially no chance for that to happen.

There is a theoretical process called spontaneous parametric up conversion, which merges 2 photons together into a more energetic one. But the requirements for that could not be met in the situation you describe for a variety of reasons. (For example, there needs to be phase matching.)
 
NFuller said:
It is done quite often using pulsed CO2 lasers.
http://www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9781441994905-c1.pdf?SGWID=0-0-45-1163443-p174103292
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/194/3/032031/pdf
http://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.439604

Nice! I didn't see your earlier post until I did mine. The below quote is from the first reference, not really that different from the OP:

As our first example, Fig. 1 shows the response of the Ne atom to pulses with central photon energies of 11.6 and 7:3 eV, respectively. In these cases, at least two or three photons, respectively, need to be absorbed in order to ionize the system."
 
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