Are my ideas as for the convergence right?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter evinda
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Convergence Ideas
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence of a sequence defined by its even and odd indexed terms, specifically examining whether the sequence \( (a_n) \) converges to a limit \( a \) given that both subsequences \( (a_{2n}) \) and \( (a_{2n+1}) \) converge to \( a \). Participants also explore the convergence of the sequence \( \left( \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \right) \) where \( x_n \) is defined based on the parity of \( n \).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that since \( a_{2n} \to a \) and \( a_{2n+1} \to a \), it follows that \( a_n \to a \) by the definition of convergence.
  • Others question the implications of the convergence of the sequence \( \left( \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \right) \) and whether the bounds \( 0 \leq \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \leq \frac{1}{2} \) are helpful.
  • Participants discuss the derivation of the inequalities \( \frac{n}{2} \leq x_1+\dots+x_n \leq \frac{n+1}{2} \) based on the parity of \( n \) and the contributions of the terms \( x_n \).
  • There is a clarification regarding the counting of terms when \( n \) is odd, leading to the conclusion that \( \frac{n-1}{2}+1=\frac{n+1}{2} \) terms equal to 1.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the correctness of their reasoning and seek confirmation from others.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the convergence of \( a_n \to a \) based on the convergence of its subsequences, but there is ongoing discussion about the implications and correctness of the inequalities related to the sequence \( \left( \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \right) \). The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and implications of these inequalities.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding the counting of terms in the sequence \( x_n \) and the implications of odd and even \( n \) on the sum \( x_1+\dots+x_n \). There are also unresolved steps in the reasoning about the convergence of the sequence \( \left( \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \right) \).

evinda
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,741
Reaction score
0
Hello! (Wave)

I am looking at the following exercise:

  1. Let $(a_n)$ be a sequence of real numbers such that $a_{2n} \to a$ and $a_{2n+1} \to a$ for some real number $a$. Show that $a_n \to a$.
  2. We are given the sequence $x_n=0$ if $n$ is even, $x_n=1$ if $n$ is odd. Check as for the convergence the sequence $\left( \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n}\right)$.

I have thought the following:

  1. Since $a_{2n} \to a$, we have that $\forall \epsilon>0 \ \exists n_1$ such that $|a_{2n}-a|<\epsilon, \forall n \geq n_1$.

    Since $a_{2n+1} \to a$, we have that $\forall \epsilon>0 \ \exists n_2$ such that $|a_{2n+1}-a|<\epsilon, \forall n \geq n_2$.

    Then we have that $|a_n-a|<\epsilon, \forall n \geq \max \{ n_1,n_2\}$ and $\forall \epsilon$ and thus $a_n \to a$.

    Is this right? (Thinking)
  2. We have that $0 \leq \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \leq \frac{\frac{n}{2}}{n}=\frac{1}{2}$.

    Does this help somehow? (Thinking)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
evinda said:
Hello! (Wave)

I am looking at the following exercise:

  1. Let $(a_n)$ be a sequence of real numbers such that $a_{2n} \to a$ and $a_{2n+1} \to a$ for some real number $a$. Show that $a_n \to a$.
  2. We are given the sequence $x_n=0$ if $n$ is even, $x_n=1$ if $n$ is odd. Check as for the convergence the sequence $\left( \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n}\right)$.

I have thought the following:

1. Since $a_{2n} \to a$, we have that $\forall \epsilon>0 \ \exists n_1$ such that $|a_{2n}-a|<\epsilon, \forall n \geq n_1$.

Since $a_{2n+1} \to a$, we have that $\forall \epsilon>0 \ \exists n_2$ such that $|a_{2n+1}-a|<\epsilon, \forall n \geq n_2$.

Then we have that $|a_n-a|<\epsilon, \forall n \geq \max \{ n_1,n_2\}$ and $\forall \epsilon$ and thus $a_n \to a$.

Is this right?

Hey evinda!

Yep. (Nod)

evinda said:
2. We have that $0 \leq \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \leq \frac{\frac{n}{2}}{n}=\frac{1}{2}$.

Does this help somehow?

Don't we have:
$$\frac n2 \le x_1+...+x_n \le \frac{n+1}2$$
? (Wondering)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Don't we have:
$$\frac n2 \le x_1+...+x_n \le \frac{n+1}2$$
? (Wondering)

How do we get this inequality?

The sum $x_1+\dots+x_n$ has $n$ summands. If $n$ is even, then the half, namely $\frac{n}{2}$ summands will be equal to $1$.
If $n$ is odd, then $\frac{n-1}{2}$ summands will be equal to $1$.

Or am I wrong? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
How do we get this inequality?

The sum $x_1+\dots+x_n$ has $n$ summands. If $n$ is even, then the half, namely $\frac{n}{2}$ summands will be equal to $1$.
If $n$ is odd, then $\frac{n-1}{2}$ summands will be equal to $1$.

Or am I wrong?

Consider $n=1$, which is odd, so we have $x_1=1$.
But $\frac{n-1}{2} = \frac{1-1}{2} = 0 \ne 1$, isn't it? (Thinking)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Consider $n=1$, which is odd, so we have $x_1=1$.
But $\frac{n-1}{2} = \frac{1-1}{2} = 0 \ne 1$, isn't it? (Thinking)

Oh yes, right... If $n$ is odd, then $\frac{n-1}{2}+1=\frac{n+1}{2}$ summands will be equal to $1$, right? (Thinking)

That's why we get $\frac{n}{2}\leq x_1+\dots+x_n \leq \frac{n+1}{2}$.

Then we have that $\frac{1}{2} \leq \frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n} \leq \frac{1}{2} \left( 1+\frac{1}{n}\right) \Rightarrow \frac{1}{2} \leq \lim_{n \to +\infty} \frac{x_1+ x_2+\dots+ x_n}{n} \leq \lim_{n \to +\infty} \frac{1}{2} \left( 1+\frac{1}{n} \right)=\frac{1}{2}$ and so the sequence $\frac{x_1+x_2+\dots+x_n}{n}$ converges to $\frac{1}{2}$.

Right?
 
(Nod)
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
(Nod)

Nice, thank you... (Smile)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K