Are Remarkable Coincidences Truly Random or Evidence of Design?

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The discussion centers on the nature of remarkable coincidences and the odds behind them, highlighting that with over 6 billion people, such events are statistically likely. Examples include a New Jersey woman winning the lottery twice, which, despite seemingly astronomical odds, can be explained by the sheer number of participants. The conversation also touches on the concept of intelligent design versus random chance, suggesting that the complexity of life may imply a creative force, though this remains unproven. Participants debate the implications of the anthropic principle and the existence of a personal versus impersonal universe, questioning whether the universe has any inherent care for human existence. Ultimately, the dialogue reflects on the balance between randomness and perceived design in the universe.
  • #91
One more thing Pit2. We can always say that the universe has designed itself. This does not depend on it having a consciousness or a purpose or a goal in mind. The idea simply suggests that as the universe evolved it began to develop a set of criteria for its components. If a component of the universe met the criteria that was laid out by the fundimental or primary laws that were developed during the first stages of the universe's evolution, then the component continued to exist. If the component didn't meet the criteria of being a part of the universe then it didn't continue to exist.

In this way one could feasibly say that the universe designed itself (which would include all of its components).

There are different types of designers and there are different methods of designing. There is what is perceived as calculated design and there is what is perceived to be chaotic or spontaneous design techniques.

What type of designer is the universe? First let's look at the definition of "Designer" or "Design".

I'll give one example for now of the definition of "design".

From the Oxford Dictionary

design |d??z?n|

noun 1 a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is built or made : he has just unveiled his design for the new museum. • the art or action of conceiving of and producing such a plan or drawing : good design can help the reader understand complicated information | the cloister is of late twelfth century design. • an arrangement of lines or shapes created to form a pattern or decoration : pottery with a lovely blue and white design. 2 purpose, planning, or intention that exists or is thought to exist behind an action, fact, or material object : the appearance of design in the universe.

verb [ trans. ] decide upon the look and functioning of (a building, garment, or other object), typically by making a detailed drawing of it : a number of architectural students were designing a factory | [as adj. with submodifier ] ( designed) specially designed buildings. • (often be designed) do or plan (something) with a specific purpose or intention in mind : [ trans. ] the tax changes were designed to stimulate economic growth. See note at intend .

The last note tends to want me to steer away from calling the universe a designer because it suggests that design is a function of "intent" or to intend.

I see it more like you'd see Jackson Pollack "designing" a painting. He leaves all the design work up to how the paint falls, on its own. The only manipulation of the "design" is his action in throwing the paint at the canvas.

The result of Pollack's production is a design that is at least 80% self designed. The paint, the gravity the meterological conditions and the size of brush, canvas and so on are the determiners that form the design. 20% would be the fact that Pollack has brought together a number of different paints, a canvas and has produced some actions that distribute the paint. His "designs" are much sought-after and fetch a high sale price today.

I think that with about .003% accuracy we could say that the universe is one big Jackson Pollack where the accidents and the resulting designs create a masterpiece of pure existence!

However, in the end I think that it is each individual's personal decision with regard to whether or not a configuration or mechanism has been purposely designed or is a result of an accident. This is because the concepts and precepts of design and accident are a human interpretation of nature or "anthropocentric".

From one stand point all of our concepts are conceived by nature itself because each individual is a product of nature. On the other hand as far as we know it is only that one, infinitesimal component of nature - humans - that have conceived of the ideas of accidents and designs.

What appears as an accident to one individual may appear as design. For instance a puddle of water and rust may very well appeal as a design element to one person where it may alarmingly appear as an accident to another individual.
 
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  • #92
nannoh said:
No, we can't say the universe wasn't designed:rolleyes: .
What we can do is decide if there is an omni-present designer who planned the universe - or - we can decide that matter has evolved the way it has because that is the only way it is able to under the constraints of the evolved and fundimental laws of the observable universe. What's going on beyond our powers of observation is anybody's guess.
What do those fundamental laws say about consciousness and life? And do they forbid humans (which exist in the observable universe) from designing stuff?

And many people guess. And many make a lot of money doing so. And many have billions of followers. They're popularity does not mean they're right. It means they have appealed to the collective emotions of the human animal.
Ur right, this has nothing to do with whether the universe was designed or not.

^btw i agree with ur post above
 
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  • #93
PIT2 said:
What do those fundamental laws say about consciousness and life? And do they forbid humans (which exist in the observable universe) from designing stuff?

Awareness:

Is a deep and convoluted subject. Is it fundamental? Or is it unique to biological mechanism?

Is Awareness unique to humans or is it universal to all organisms?

As for fundamental laws determining whether humans can design or not. What's tricky is what I said earlier. Humans are a component of nature biological and non-biological. When we design a sidewalk or drainage ditch, it is Nature designing the ditch and the sidewalk. So, with this in mind, I would guess that there is nothing forbidden in nature.

The only thing controlling whether or not an action or mechanism is allowed to exist in Nature is if it conforms to what seems to be quite a few laws in Nature. The overall law is balance. If a mechanism is out of balance Nature will attempt to balance the event with its other components. If that doesn't work the mechanism is dismantled. When humans design something - even civilizations - that is out of balance, the law of balance will slowly try to modify it to fit Natural criteria. If it is not adapting well, it is dismantled.
 
  • #94
My vote goes toward the universe being an accident that has had time to become organized enough to survive as long as it has.
 

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