Are some cosmic rays iron nuclei?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the composition of cosmic rays, specifically whether they include iron nuclei in addition to protons. Participants explore the implications of this composition for understanding cosmic rays, their energy levels, and potential effects on future human colonization of celestial bodies like Titan.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that cosmic rays are not solely protons, suggesting that heavier nuclei, including iron, are present, particularly in high-energy cosmic rays.
  • One participant references a paper indicating that fitting data on cosmic rays requires the inclusion of heavier nuclei, noting that these high-energy events are rare.
  • There is a discussion about the potential for colonizing Titan, with some participants questioning the choice of Titan over other options like living underground on the Moon.
  • Another participant raises concerns about future environmental conditions on Earth due to increasing solar luminosity, which could impact the feasibility of sustaining life.
  • One participant challenges the urgency of addressing future environmental changes, contrasting the timelines of 600 million years and 1 billion years.
  • A historical perspective is introduced, with a participant noting the long evolutionary timeline since Homo Erectus, suggesting that there is significant time before critical environmental changes occur.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the composition of cosmic rays and the implications of future environmental changes. There is no consensus on the urgency of addressing these issues or the best strategies for future colonization.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various scientific papers and articles, but there are limitations in the assumptions made regarding cosmic ray composition and the timelines for environmental changes. The discussion reflects a range of perspectives without resolving the underlying uncertainties.

swampwiz
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I had thought that cosmic rays were all protons, but this article says sometimes it's iron.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/let-s-colonize-titan
GCRs include particles such as iron nuclei traveling at close to the speed of light that destroy brain tissue.
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
It appears they are composed of heavier nuclei in addition to protons, especially the highest energy cosmic rays. This graph from this paper shows that in order to fit the data, the authors need to assume that cosmic rays include many heavier nuclei, up to and including iron. However, be aware that these very high energy events are extremely rare. As for the paper you linked, why would we choose to colonize Titan as opposed to just living underground on the moon?
Screen Shot 2021-04-30 at 6.41.58 AM.png
 
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phyzguy said:
It appears they are composed of heavier nuclei in addition to protons, especially the highest energy cosmic rays. This graph from this paper shows that in order to fit the data, the authors need to assume that cosmic rays include many heavier nuclei, up to and including iron. However, be aware that these very high energy events are extremely rare. As for the paper you linked, why would we choose to colonize Titan as opposed to just living underground on the moon?
Titan could be a good place to go when the Sun gets to its red giant stage of life.
 
swampwiz said:
Titan could be a good place to go when the Sun gets to its red giant stage of life.
Since that is several billion years in the future, I for one am not going to worry about it.
 
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phyzguy said:
Since that is several billion years in the future, I for one am not going to worry about it.
It says here that the Sun will become too hot for plants in about 600M years (a "Soylent Green" diet would be unsustainable :eek:). And even if the food problem could be solved, it's going to be too hot in about 1G years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_Earth
The luminosity of the Sun will steadily increase, resulting in a rise in the solar radiation reaching the Earth. This will result in a higher rate of weathering of silicate minerals, affecting the carbonate-silicate cycle which will cause a decrease in the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. In about 600 million years from now, the level of carbon dioxide will fall below the level needed to sustain C3 carbon fixation photosynthesis used by trees.
In about one billion years, the solar luminosity will be 10% higher than at present. This will cause the atmosphere to become a "moist greenhouse", resulting in a runaway evaporation of the oceans. As a likely consequence, plate tectonics will come to an end, and with them the entire carbon cycle.
 
So your position is that we don't have to worry about something that won't happen for 1B years, but 600M years is urgent?
 
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Just for scale, Homo Erectus, arguably the first pretty close human ancestor seems to have shown up (maybe) about two million years ago. Seem to me that there is a lot of evolutionary road to travel until we get close to the point that CO2 levels drop below the level needed to sustain photosynthesis.

--diogenesNY
 

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