Are There Global Extrema for These Functions?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mathmari
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Global
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around determining the existence of global extrema for specific functions, including $f(x)=x-\frac{5}{2}+\frac{4}{x}$ and $f(x)=10e^{-x}(x-1)^2$. Participants explore the conditions under which local extrema can also be global extrema, considering limits at the boundaries of the domain.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that for the function $f(x)=x-\frac{5}{2}+\frac{4}{x}$, local extrema occur at $x=22$ (minimum) and $x=-2$ (maximum), prompting questions about global extrema.
  • Others suggest checking the limits at the boundaries of the domain to determine global extrema, indicating that local extrema could be global if the function behavior at the boundaries supports it.
  • One participant calculates the limits for $f(x)=x-\frac{5}{2}+\frac{4}{x}$ and finds that $\lim_{x\to -\infty} f(x)=-\infty$, $\lim_{x\uparrow 0} f(x)=+\infty$, $\lim_{x\downarrow 0} f(x)=-\infty$, and $\lim_{x\to +\infty} f(x)=+\infty$, leading to a conclusion that there are no global extrema.
  • For the function $f(x)=10e^{-x}(x-1)^2$, participants discuss its limits, concluding that while there is no global maximum, there might be a global minimum.
  • Another function, $g(x)=\frac{x}{x^2+1}$, is introduced, with participants calculating its limits and discussing whether it has global extrema based on its behavior at infinity.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about whether local extrema imply global extrema, suggesting further inspection is necessary.
  • One participant mentions that a local extremum higher than $0$ could be a global maximum, while a local extremum lower than $0$ could be a global minimum.
  • There is a discussion about inflection points, with participants clarifying the conditions under which they occur, particularly in relation to the second derivative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of global extrema for the functions discussed. While some suggest there are no global extrema for certain functions, others propose that local extrema may serve as global extrema under specific conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of local extrema on global extrema.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of extrema and the behavior of functions at boundaries, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

I have show that the function $y=f(x)=x-\frac{5}{2}+\frac{4}{x}=\frac{2x^2-5x+8}{2x}$ has a local minimum at $x=22$ and a local maximum at $x=-2$. How ca we check if they are also global extrema? (Wondering)

The same at the function $f(x)=10e^{-x}(x-1)^2$, at $x=1$ the function has a local minimum and at $x=3$ it has a local maximum. What about the global minimum/maximum? (Wondering)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
mathmari said:
Hey! :o

I have show that the function $y=f(x)=x-\frac{5}{2}+\frac{4}{x}=\frac{2x^2-5x+8}{2x}$ has a local minimum at $x=22$ and a local maximum at $x=-2$. How ca we check if they are also global extrema? (Wondering)

The same at the function $f(x)=10e^{-x}(x-1)^2$, at $x=1$ the function has a local minimum and at $x=3$ it has a local maximum. What about the global minimum/maximum? (Wondering)

Hi mathmari! (Smile)

Since those functions are continuously differentiable, it suffices to check what happens on the boundaries of the domain.
That's because any extremum at an interior point of the domain has a derivative of $0$.
It's only at the boundaries where the function can have an extremum that does not necessarily have a derivative of $0$.

For the first function that means checking the values of:
$$\lim_{x\to -\infty} f(x), \quad
\lim_{x\uparrow 0} f(x), \quad
\lim_{x\downarrow 0} f(x), \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} f(x)
$$
(Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
Hi mathmari! (Smile)

Since those functions are continuously differentiable, it suffices to check what happens on the boundaries of the domain.
That's because any extremum at an interior point of the domain has a derivative of $0$.
It's only at the boundaries where the function can have an extremum that does not necessarily have a the derivative of $0$.

For the first function that means checking the values of:
$$\lim_{x\to -\infty} f(x), \quad
\lim_{x\uparrow 0} f(x), \quad
\lim_{x\downarrow 0} f(x), \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} f(x)
$$
(Thinking)

We have that $$\lim_{x\to -\infty} f(x)=-\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\uparrow 0} f(x)=+\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\downarrow 0} f(x)=-\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} f(x)=+\infty
$$ right? (Wondering)

What do we conclude from that? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
We have that $$\lim_{x\to -\infty} f(x)=-\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\uparrow 0} f(x)=+\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\downarrow 0} f(x)=-\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} f(x)=+\infty
$$ right? (Wondering)

What do we conclude from that? (Wondering)

Right!
We conclude that there is no global maximum nor global minimum. (Wink)
 
For the other function we have $$\lim_{x\to -\infty} f(x)=\lim_{x\to -\infty} 10e^{-x}(x^2-2x+1)=+\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} f(x)=\lim_{x\to +\infty} \frac{10(x^2-2x+1)}{e^x}=0$$

So, does this mean that there is a global extrema? Suppose we have also the function $g(x)=\frac{x}{x^2+1}$, then $$\lim_{x\to -\infty} g(x)=-\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} g(x)=+\infty$$ then we conclude that there is no global extrema, right? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
For the other function we have $$\lim_{x\to -\infty} f(x)=\lim_{x\to -\infty} 10e^{-x}(x^2-2x+1)=+\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} f(x)=\lim_{x\to +\infty} \frac{10(x^2-2x+1)}{e^x}=0$$

So, does this mean that there is a global extrema?

It means there is no global maximum, but there might be a global minimum.
And we know now that we we have one horizontal asymptote, which is $y=0$. (Nerd)
Suppose we have also the function $g(x)=\frac{x}{x^2+1}$, then $$\lim_{x\to -\infty} g(x)=-\infty, \quad
\lim_{x\to +\infty} g(x)=+\infty$$ then we conclude that there is no global extrema, right? (Wondering)

Yes. The function takes on values that are higher and lower than any possible maximum respectively minimum could be.
 
I like Serena said:
Yes. The function takes on values that are higher and lower than any possible maximum respectively minimum could be.

I computed wrong the limits at $g$. It must be $\lim_{x\rightarrow -\infty}g(x)= \lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}g(x)=0$, right? (Wondering)
Haveing found the local extrema, do we conclude that they must be then also global? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
I computed wrong the limits at $g$. It must be $\lim_{x\rightarrow -\infty}g(x)= \lim_{x\rightarrow +\infty}g(x)=0$, right?
Haveing found the local extrema, do we conclude that they must be then also global?

We have to inspect them to tell.
In this case we have one local extremum that is higher than $0$, meaning it's the global maximum.
And we have one local extremum that is lower than $0$, meaning it's the global mimimum. (Nerd)
 
I understand! (Nerd)

A function has an inflection point only when the second derivative has a root, right? (Wondering)
 
  • #10
mathmari said:
A function has an inflection point only when the second derivative has a root, right?

Close, although it's a little more subtle as we can see in wiki:

Inflection points are the points of the curve where the curvature changes its sign while a tangent exists.
[...]
For a twice differentiable function, an inflection point is a point on the graph at which the second derivative has an isolated zero and changes sign.​
So for instance when the function is not twice differentiable, I think we can still have an inflection point. (Nerd)
 
  • #11
I see... Thanks a lot! (Happy)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K