Are there non-smooth metrics for spacetime (without singularities)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of non-smooth metrics for spacetime that do not involve singularities. Participants explore the implications of such metrics on local Lorentz symmetry and the principle of equivalence in general relativity (GR).

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether non-smooth spacetimes can exist without singularities, suggesting that such discontinuities would typically lead to geodesic incompleteness, which is a form of singularity in GR.
  • Another participant asserts that if a spacetime metric is non-smooth, it would violate local Lorentz invariance, which is essential for the consistency of current physical theories.
  • A different participant seeks clarification on what constitutes a non-smooth spacetime if it is not singular at the points of discontinuity.
  • One participant references the definition of singularity in GR as geodesic incompleteness and argues that non-smooth metrics would inherently lead to singularities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the existence of non-smooth spacetimes without singularities, with some asserting that such models are incompatible with established physical theories.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions of smoothness and singularity, as well as the implications for local Lorentz symmetry and the principle of equivalence in GR.

Suekdccia
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Are there non-smooth metrics for spacetime (that don't involve singularities)?
Are there non-smooth metrics for spacetime (that don't involve singularities)?

I found this statement in a discussion about the application of local Lorentz symmetry in spacetime metrics:

Lorentz invariance holds locally in GR, but you're right that it no longer applies globally when gravity gets involved. While in SR, quantities maintain Lorentz (or Poincare) symmetry via Lorentz (or Poincare) transforms, in GR they obey general covariance which is symmetry under arbitrary differentiable and invertible transformations (aka diffeomorphism).
If a spacetime was not smooth, and didn't allow local Lorentz symmetry, it would break the principle of equivalence which is the bedrock assumption in GR.


I would like to know if there are possible spacetimes where they would not be smooth. The only problem is that this usually involves singularities. Are there models or metrics of non smooth spacetimes that would be compatible with what we currently know in physics but that don't necessarily involve singularities?
 
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Suekdccia said:
I found this statement in a discussion
Where? Please give a reference.
 
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I'm trying to figure out what a non-smooth spacetime is supposed to be if it is not singular at the discontinuities.
 
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In GR, the primary definition of singularity is geodesic incompleteness. A point of spacetime where all derivatives are undefined while continuity exists must lead to geodesic incompleteness, since geodesics require satisfaction of a differential equation. So such points necessarily lead to spacetime singularities as defined in GR.

As to the question: "Are there models or metrics of non smooth spacetimes that would be compatible with what we currently know in physics", irrespective of singularities, the answer must be no. As your quote notes, local Lorentz invariance would be violated, and all currently accepted theories require this, and all data are consistent with this.
 
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