Are undefined constants valid in trig equations when other constants present?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Sduibek
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Constants Trig
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of trigonometric identities when undefined constants, such as those resulting from tangent at certain angles, are present in the equations. Participants explore the implications of using these identities in the context of angles that yield undefined values, particularly focusing on the tangent function.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants present the identity for tangent subtraction, noting that it leads to undefined expressions when angles are odd multiples of π/2.
  • Others argue that while the identity is not applicable in these cases, limits can be used to evaluate expressions approaching these undefined points, such as using the limit of the tangent function.
  • A participant mentions that the identity can still be valid if angles are even multiples of π/2, suggesting a distinction based on the type of multiple.
  • One participant acknowledges the informal use of undefined values in rough work but recognizes it as mathematically incorrect, indicating a tension between practical shorthand and formal correctness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that trigonometric identities require defined quantities, but there is disagreement on how to handle cases where undefined values arise, particularly regarding the use of limits and the distinction between odd and even multiples of π/2.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of tangent and the conditions under which the identities are applied. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in approaching limits or the implications of using undefined values in calculations.

Sduibek
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
For example:

tan(pi/2 - pi/4) = (tan(pi/2) - tan(pi/4) ) / 1 + tan(pi/2)tan(pi/4)

Which of course comes out to:

undefined + 1 / 1 + undefined

Does that equal 1, or equal Undefined/No Solution?sorry for the poor formatting, I couldn't find the mathprint symbols for pi and fractions
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Sduibek said:
For example:

tan(pi/2 - pi/4) = (tan(pi/2) - tan(pi/4) ) / 1 + tan(pi/2)tan(pi/4)

Which of course comes out to:

undefined + 1 / 1 + undefined

Does that equal 1, or equal Undefined/No Solution?


sorry for the poor formatting, I couldn't find the mathprint symbols for pi and fractions

Trig identities are only valid if the various quantities are defined. So, for example, the formula$$
\tan(a-b) = \frac {\tan a - \tan b}{1 + \tan a \tan b}$$does not apply if either of the angles or their difference is an odd multiple of ##\pi/2##. [Edited, thanks for catching that Curious3141]
 
Last edited:
LCKurtz said:
Trig identities are only valid if the various quantities are defined. So, for example, the formula$$
\tan(a-b) = \frac {\tan a - \tan b}{1 + \tan a \tan b}$$does not apply if either of the angles or their difference is a multiple of ##\pi/2##.

Okay, thank you!
 
LCKurtz said:
Trig identities are only valid if the various quantities are defined. So, for example, the formula$$
\tan(a-b) = \frac {\tan a - \tan b}{1 + \tan a \tan b}$$does not apply if either of the angles or their difference is a multiple of ##\pi/2##.

(Just to correct a small error, the expression *is* perfectly valid if either or both of the angles is an even multiple of [itex]\frac{\pi}{2}[/itex]).

Whilst this is strictly true (for odd multiples of [itex]\frac{\pi}{2}[/itex]), one can actually use the angle sum identities to calculate the limiting values of expressions.

For example, we know that [itex]\tan (\frac{\pi}{2} - x) = \cot x[/itex]

We can prove this easily with a right triangle, but we can also view this as the limit of this expression:

[itex]\lim_{y \rightarrow \frac{\pi}{2}} \tan (y - x) = \lim_{y \rightarrow \frac{\pi}{2}} \frac{\tan y - \tan x}{1 + \tan x\tan y}[/itex] where [itex]x \neq \frac{(2n+1)\pi}{2}[/itex].

Since approaching the limit, [itex]|\tan y| >> |\tan x|[/itex], the limit becomes:

[itex]\lim_{y \rightarrow \frac{\pi}{2}} \frac{\tan y}{\tan x\tan y} = \frac{1}{\tan x} = \cot x[/itex], as expected.

Usually, when I do rough work "informally", I don't bother with the limits, I just put the values as [itex]\tan \frac{\pi}{2}[/itex] directly. But of course, I'm aware this is mathematically incorrect, just a convenient shorthand.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
1K