Are You a Vegetarian? | Poll & Discussion

[daveb]

I no longer harangue others and extol the virtues of vegetarianism. I'm sticking with my form of vegetarianism because I've been conditioned to be happy with this diet, and I still figure it's more humane than an all-out meat-eating diet. But I won't fault anyone for choosing to eat meat.

I'm the same way (though vegan). I call the types of people that try to force others into veganism vegangelicals.

 

[glb_lub]

I used to eat non-vegetarian but I am an ovo-lacto-vegetarian as of now.
But recently I watched the following video :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6GimGZz6a8

And would love to give a break to my vegetarianism exclusively to try out these locusts.
Some of you may have watched that TED talk.

I don't know whether this has been already discussed. But what are you people's views on insect diet ? A lot of people here are not eating non-vegetarian food for humane reasons. That is quite understandable.

But would you consider eating insects as inhumane ? I mean , a locust (most probably) does not have the same amount of emotional range like a cow. Similarly, would you say eating animals such as oysters inhumane ? Of course , eating locusts/oysters would count as non-vegetarian diet but would you say it is less inhumane than eating cows/lambs ?

 

[micromass]

But would you consider eating insects as inhumane ? I mean , a locust (most probably) does not have the same amount of emotional range like a cow. Similarly, would you say eating animals such as oysters inhumane ? Of course , eating locusts/oysters would count as non-vegetarian diet but would you say it is less inhumane than eating cows/lambs ?

It's a tough question. I'm vegetarian because suffering and pain of animals bother me. But I don't think that insects or locus can even feel pain (although I'm not sure).

However, I want to draw a line somewhere between what I don't eat and what I do eat. That line is necessarily arbitrary. So I choose to draw the line between plants and animals. I don't think I would have any problems right now with eating insects, but I just choose not to.

 

[Infinitum]

But I don't think that insects or locus can even feel pain (although I'm not sure).

http://www.utilitarian-essays.com/insect-pain.html

Yes, they do!

 

[glb_lub]

Anyways in case some of there are ex-meat eaters here who are missing the taste of meat, there are few vegetarian substitutes which somewhat simulate the texture of meat.
We had discussed 'Paneer' i.e cottage cheese a few posts back. It is a good substitute for meat. Some people may say that so is mushroom. Not to mention tofu.

In India, we have dishes made from a fruit called Jackfruit.

The unripe fruit tastes similar to chicken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackfruit#Young_fruit

I'm not sure whether it is available everywhere around the world. How many of you have tasted it ?

 

[Danger]

The unripe fruit tastes similar to chicken.

Is there anything that doesn't taste like chicken? Rattlesnakes, worms, lizards, anything found in a meteorite crater... If anybody wants you to try something inedible, they say that it tastes like chicken. The only thing that I haven't heard it said about is chicken.
I have no objection in principle to eating insects. On the other hand, I have a morbid bug phobia. I can't even pick up a dead one without pliers or tweezers. It doesn't bother me that I suck in the occasional gnat or fruit fly, but the thought of something like a beetle or grasshopper entering my system send shivers up my spine.

 

[CAC1001]

Not a vegan, but I do make sure to eat lots of fresh raw produce. Every day I munch on raw baby carrots and raw spinach. I have a "daily vegetable requirement" so as to make sure I am always consuming veggies to get the nutrition. I figure a combination at least of raw carrots and spinach is a very good balance nutrition-wise. I eat other vegetables and lots of fruit as well.

 

[Evo]

Not a vegan, but I do make sure to eat lots of fresh raw produce. Every day I munch on raw baby carrots and raw spinach. I have a "daily vegetable requirement" so as to make sure I am always consuming veggies to get the nutrition. I figure a combination at least of raw carrots and spinach is a very good balance nutrition-wise. I eat other vegetables and lots of fruit as well.

Just be aware that raw vegetables are not always as nutritious as cooked vegetables. You really need to look up the nutritive values of each vegetable cooked and uncooked. A good place for this is http://nutritiondata.self.com/

 

[micromass]

Just be aware that raw vegetables are not always as nutritious as cooked vegetables. You really need to look up the nutritive values of each vegetable cooked and uncooked. A good place for this is http://nutritiondata.self.com/

Wow, that is a great site! Thanks!

 

[Kholdstare]

I have this simple philosophy behind eating vegetables, meat etc. I don't eat living things which show human-like emotions. Rest, I eat (if edible and tasty). Compare dog vs. cow. A dog will follow me everywhere and be a company. A cow will just stand there and ...

 

[jairosomethin]

I'm not a Vegetarian but I do try to incorporate as many vegetables as I can in my diet. Most of the time I'll cook dishes that are prepared with vegetables.

 

[Curious3141]

I have this simple philosophy behind eating vegetables, meat etc. I don't eat living things which show human-like emotions. Rest, I eat (if edible and tasty). Compare dog vs. cow. A dog will follow me everywhere and be a company. A cow will just stand there and ...

A cow is a slow moving, placid mammal. Its physical limitations preclude its being able to follow you around, puppy-dog like.

I'm willing to bet that a calf, if it imprinted on you as a juvenile, would also follow you around doggedly, pun intended.

Dogs exhibit that "companion" behaviour toward you only because of similar imprinting. Generally, the relationship between a dog and its master is considered similar to that between a wild dog and the alpha male of its pack. A stray (feral) dog wouldn't give you the time of day, let alone follow you around devotedly, so why not eat that?

 

[Kholdstare]

A cow is a slow moving, placid mammal. Its physical limitations preclude its being able to follow you around, puppy-dog like.

Wrong! It can. But it wont.

I'm willing to bet that a calf, if it imprinted on you as a juvenile, would also follow you around doggedly, pun intended.

Probably, only to get some food. No emotional attachment.

Dogs exhibit that "companion" behaviour toward you only because of similar imprinting. Generally, the relationship between a dog and its master is considered similar to that between a wild dog and the alpha male of its pack.

Both a dog and a human can understand that they are different species. Similar imprinting does not work.

A stray (feral) dog wouldn't give you the time of day, let alone follow you around devotedly, so why not eat that?

Its an example of intelligent predator. I don't eat intelligent predators.

 

[Danger]

Wrong! It can. But it wont...

...Its an example of intelligent predator. I don't eat intelligent predators.

You consider a dog to be intelligent? Pigs are a hell of a lot brighter, but nobody seems to think of pork and bacon as off-limits.
My pet cow would, in fact, follow me around until she got bored.

 

[Curious3141]

You consider a dog to be intelligent? Pigs are a hell of a lot brighter, but nobody seems to think of pork and bacon as off-limits.
My pet cow would, in fact, follow me around until she got bored.

Exactly. We're all prone to anthropomorphising. The key is to recognise the tendency, and see that all we're engaging in is arbitrary rationalisation of dietary behaviours we would've had in any case.

So eat what you want - but recognise that any justifications you can come up with for not eating what some other fellow is eating are likely to be subjective, irrational and convincing only to yourself.

 

[glb_lub]

Is there anything that doesn't taste like chicken? Rattlesnakes, worms, lizards, anything found in a meteorite crater... If anybody wants you to try something inedible, they say that it tastes like chicken. The only thing that I haven't heard it said about is chicken.

Ya. In the show "Man vs Wild" the anchor once compared the taste of a snake to fish+chicken.

Well, but jackfruit is not that inedible. I guess at least not as inedible as worms and lizards. It is similar to breadfruit. I remember reading a lot about breadfruit in the novel "Mutiny on HMS Bounty". Though never got a chance to taste it.

I have no objection in principle to eating insects. On the other hand, I have a morbid bug phobia. I can't even pick up a dead one without pliers or tweezers. It doesn't bother me that I suck in the occasional gnat or fruit fly, but the thought of something like a beetle or grasshopper entering my system send shivers up my spine.

I fear cockroaches the most. Whenever I look at two cockroaches engaged in conversation I get the feeling that they are plotting a conspiracy.
But I have not the same aversion to grasshoppers. They seem pretty innocent.
Ever since I heard the 'ant and grasshopper' fable, they have my sympathies.

Exactly. We're all prone to anthropomorphising. The key is to recognise the tendency, and see that all we're engaging in is arbitrary rationalisation of dietary behaviours we would've had in any case.

So eat what you want - but recognise that any justifications you can come up with for not eating what some other fellow is eating are likely to be subjective, irrational and convincing only to yourself.

Well said.

 

[Danger]

I have not the same aversion to grasshoppers. They seem pretty innocent.

You obviously have never had one jumping around inside your pants.

That's not a joke, by the bye. When you have a couple of hundred of those things per square metre, hopping and/or flying in every direction, they get into everything. Their rear (jumping) legs are like little saw blades, and it hurts like hell when one is trying to escape your clothing.

edit: They also spit all over you like a cowboy with a chin full of tobacco.

 

[glb_lub]

That's not a joke, by the bye. When you have a couple of hundred of those things per square metre, hopping and/or flying in every direction,

Wow, I have never seen so many at once.

they get into everything. Their rear (jumping) legs are like little saw blades, and it hurts like hell when one is trying to escape your clothing.

It's just not cricket.(pun intended)

 

[Monique]

So eat what you want - but recognise that any justifications you can come up with for not eating what some other fellow is eating are likely to be subjective, irrational and convincing only to yourself.

Uh? Telling the population that they should eat what they want without educating themselves about the consequences makes absolutely no sense at all. There's no need to bother people with every bite they take, but disregarding every food science argument as subjective and irrational is unconvincing in itself.

 

[SHISHKABOB]

So eat what you want - but recognise that any justifications you can come up with for not eating what some other fellow is eating are likely to be subjective, irrational and convincing only to yourself.

that's not entirely true: if I tell you that eating dirt is not a good idea compared to eating real food, that's not subjective at all

 

[Monique]

that's not entirely true: if I tell you that eating dirt is not a good idea compared to eating real food, that's not subjective at all

Unless you have a Zinc deficiency, then eating certain kinds of clay can be nutritious (look up the research by Ananda S Prasad). This habit of geophagia is fairly common in villages in Iran, where their diet would otherwise be deficient. I think these people definitely should be informed that the syndrome occurring in their male population of severe iron-deficiency anemia, hypogonadism, dwarfism, hepatosplenomegaly and geophagia is caused by Zinc deficiency and how their natural diet can be supplemented.

 

[Curious3141]

Uh? Telling the population that they should eat what they want without educating themselves about the consequences makes absolutely no sense at all. There's no need to bother people with every bite they take, but disregarding every food science argument as subjective and irrational is unconvincing in itself.

Now where did I slam "food science"? What I'm against is vegevalengelising (thanks to whoever coined that term in this thread). I don't see an abundance of "food science" arguments in PETA's propaganda, for example.

I have no issues with advising a remote population how to avoid goitre, for example. But that having been said, what passes for "food science" in the modern context also needs to be tempered with some degree of circumspection. For instance, I see lots of nutrition websites, even the ones with mainstream medical backing, extolling the virtues of salad-consumption. Salads are not all-good. Raw veggies have been implicated in serious foodborne outbreaks - for instance, the E. coli O1044 outbreak that was finally traced to fenugreek sprouts germinated from contaminated fenugreek seeds.

I have a colleague who's recently been studying the bacterial flora of various vegetables. Believe me when I tell you that raw, even thoroughly washed, veggies are *teeming* with bacteria - and it's not just sprouts. Now it probably doesn't matter at all when the eater is a healthy person with an intact immune system. But what if it's someone with cancer, on chemotherapy, who's eating the stuff? If that someone isn't specifically advised against it, I think he might go out and eat salads or drink freshly juiced fruits or veggies, assuming they're "healthy" options. It hasn't yet been clearly established how dangerous this is to an immunocompromised individual, but the risk is plausible.

So I'm actually in agreement with you about people being educated about the *nutritive value* and *safety* of the stuff they eat, but I'm against people being harangued about the *ethics* behind the production of the food they choose to consume. I hope that makes it clearer.

(PS: I'm speaking as a former, "recovering" haranguer/vegevangeliser. I've realized the futility, and to some extent, hypocrisy, of the position I used to hold and preach).

 

[Curious3141]

that's not entirely true: if I tell you that eating dirt is not a good idea compared to eating real food, that's not subjective at all

Hyperbole does not a good argument make. Please see my reply to Monique.

 

[Danger]

Wow, I have never seen so many at once.

It's rare, but I've experienced it several times. At that population density, though, a lot of them are less irritating little versions, maybe 2cm or so in length. The regular-size ones, 5-7cm, are the ones that hurt. They kick like mules, and have those nasty barbs all along their legs.

It's just not cricket.(pun intended)

 

[Monique]

So I'm actually in agreement with you about people being educated about the *nutritive value* and *safety* of the stuff they eat, but I'm against people being harangued about the *ethics* behind the production of the food they choose to consume. I hope that makes it clearer.

(PS: I'm speaking as a former, "recovering" haranguer/vegevangeliser. I've realized the futility, and to some extent, hypocrisy, of the position I used to hold and preach).

Thanks for the clarification, I don't fully agree on the ethics part. I financially support an organization whose aim is to educate the public about farm animal welfare, I see PF has recently donated to the animal humane society because it received the most votes. It's part of life and there is no reason to ignore it.

I do agree about the haranguing part, but that argument fits both sides. As a vegetarian there can't be a public dinner without being challenged on the subject. I've never asked someone why they eat their steak, but I don't avoid discussions about nutritional facts or animal welfare. I was an undercover vegetarian for about 8 months at work, until a Thanksgiving dinner blew my cover..

 

[Evo]

I have no issues with advising a remote population how to avoid goitre, for example. But that having been said, what passes for "food science" in the modern context also needs to be tempered with some degree of circumspection. For instance, I see lots of nutrition websites, even the ones with mainstream medical backing, extolling the virtues of salad-consumption. Salads are not all-good. Raw veggies have been implicated in serious foodborne outbreaks - for instance, the E. coli O1044 outbreak that was finally traced to fenugreek sprouts germinated from contaminated fenugreek seeds.

My gastroenterologist has forbidden me to eat any raw vegetables, but I think part of that is the difficulty in digesting raw foods, which is another problem with a compromised digestive system.

I still sneak in a simple salad or raw tomato once in awhile, but no more platters of raw vegetables. Eliminating them has really helped. I can still eat vegetables, they just have to be cooked until soft.

 

[Monique]

Indeed, and raw vegetables are also bad for people with food allergies (and many are probably undiagnosed): cooking reduces the allergenicity. I prefer cooked food, even gazpacho.

 

[RoshanBBQ]

I would like to eat the same things my ancestors ate. They ate meat, so I eat meat.

The reasoning is that on average, people who handled that diet best survived more often than people who did not mesh with that diet. I am a product of this procedure repeated many times, indicating there is a large probability I mesh with that diet well.

Different groups of humans primarily ate different things depending on environment, so knowledge of your heritage is of import. I'm sure all groups ate some form of meat, however.

Also, I don't care about our environment or that animals must die for me to eat them. It just doesn't seem fair for me and a small group to act responsibly when everyone else is having a blast (and perhaps gaining economic advantage too), polluting and eating meat. I'll only reform my views with these two things if everyone is forced to reform his view too. What's fair is fair.

 

[dipole]

I basically just look at things from a hierarchical order. I would feel very uncomfortable eating anything that's directly below me on the food chain - cats, dogs, wild predators, whales etc... things which have no natural predators (at least not usually). But animals lower on the food chain are fair game IMO. A big exception to this is animals that live in areas not traditionally occupied by human beings (seals for example), and animals whose populations are under stress or in danger of extinction, regardless of their place on the food chain.

That being said, I am very against eating wild animals, because I don't like destruction of natural beautiful things. Any human-created breed, however, is perfectly delicious and acceptable in my opinion. A cow, pig, chicken, or whatever, is basically a crop in my view. It has the same status as a food item as a potato does.

 

[ME_student]

No, don't plan on being one any time soon either...