Are You a Vegetarian? | Poll & Discussion

[Monique]

that's not entirely true: if I tell you that eating dirt is not a good idea compared to eating real food, that's not subjective at all

Unless you have a Zinc deficiency, then eating certain kinds of clay can be nutritious (look up the research by Ananda S Prasad). This habit of geophagia is fairly common in villages in Iran, where their diet would otherwise be deficient. I think these people definitely should be informed that the syndrome occurring in their male population of severe iron-deficiency anemia, hypogonadism, dwarfism, hepatosplenomegaly and geophagia is caused by Zinc deficiency and how their natural diet can be supplemented.

 

[Curious3141]

Uh? Telling the population that they should eat what they want without educating themselves about the consequences makes absolutely no sense at all. There's no need to bother people with every bite they take, but disregarding every food science argument as subjective and irrational is unconvincing in itself.

Now where did I slam "food science"? What I'm against is vegevalengelising (thanks to whoever coined that term in this thread). I don't see an abundance of "food science" arguments in PETA's propaganda, for example.

I have no issues with advising a remote population how to avoid goitre, for example. But that having been said, what passes for "food science" in the modern context also needs to be tempered with some degree of circumspection. For instance, I see lots of nutrition websites, even the ones with mainstream medical backing, extolling the virtues of salad-consumption. Salads are not all-good. Raw veggies have been implicated in serious foodborne outbreaks - for instance, the E. coli O1044 outbreak that was finally traced to fenugreek sprouts germinated from contaminated fenugreek seeds.

I have a colleague who's recently been studying the bacterial flora of various vegetables. Believe me when I tell you that raw, even thoroughly washed, veggies are *teeming* with bacteria - and it's not just sprouts. Now it probably doesn't matter at all when the eater is a healthy person with an intact immune system. But what if it's someone with cancer, on chemotherapy, who's eating the stuff? If that someone isn't specifically advised against it, I think he might go out and eat salads or drink freshly juiced fruits or veggies, assuming they're "healthy" options. It hasn't yet been clearly established how dangerous this is to an immunocompromised individual, but the risk is plausible.

So I'm actually in agreement with you about people being educated about the *nutritive value* and *safety* of the stuff they eat, but I'm against people being harangued about the *ethics* behind the production of the food they choose to consume. I hope that makes it clearer.

(PS: I'm speaking as a former, "recovering" haranguer/vegevangeliser. I've realized the futility, and to some extent, hypocrisy, of the position I used to hold and preach).

 

[Curious3141]

that's not entirely true: if I tell you that eating dirt is not a good idea compared to eating real food, that's not subjective at all

Hyperbole does not a good argument make. Please see my reply to Monique.

 

[Danger]

Wow, I have never seen so many at once.

It's rare, but I've experienced it several times. At that population density, though, a lot of them are less irritating little versions, maybe 2cm or so in length. The regular-size ones, 5-7cm, are the ones that hurt. They kick like mules, and have those nasty barbs all along their legs.

It's just not cricket.(pun intended)

 

[Monique]

So I'm actually in agreement with you about people being educated about the *nutritive value* and *safety* of the stuff they eat, but I'm against people being harangued about the *ethics* behind the production of the food they choose to consume. I hope that makes it clearer.

(PS: I'm speaking as a former, "recovering" haranguer/vegevangeliser. I've realized the futility, and to some extent, hypocrisy, of the position I used to hold and preach).

Thanks for the clarification, I don't fully agree on the ethics part. I financially support an organization whose aim is to educate the public about farm animal welfare, I see PF has recently donated to the animal humane society because it received the most votes. It's part of life and there is no reason to ignore it.

I do agree about the haranguing part, but that argument fits both sides. As a vegetarian there can't be a public dinner without being challenged on the subject. I've never asked someone why they eat their steak, but I don't avoid discussions about nutritional facts or animal welfare. I was an undercover vegetarian for about 8 months at work, until a Thanksgiving dinner blew my cover..

 

[Evo]

I have no issues with advising a remote population how to avoid goitre, for example. But that having been said, what passes for "food science" in the modern context also needs to be tempered with some degree of circumspection. For instance, I see lots of nutrition websites, even the ones with mainstream medical backing, extolling the virtues of salad-consumption. Salads are not all-good. Raw veggies have been implicated in serious foodborne outbreaks - for instance, the E. coli O1044 outbreak that was finally traced to fenugreek sprouts germinated from contaminated fenugreek seeds.

My gastroenterologist has forbidden me to eat any raw vegetables, but I think part of that is the difficulty in digesting raw foods, which is another problem with a compromised digestive system.

I still sneak in a simple salad or raw tomato once in awhile, but no more platters of raw vegetables. Eliminating them has really helped. I can still eat vegetables, they just have to be cooked until soft.

 

[Monique]

Indeed, and raw vegetables are also bad for people with food allergies (and many are probably undiagnosed): cooking reduces the allergenicity. I prefer cooked food, even gazpacho.

 

[RoshanBBQ]

I would like to eat the same things my ancestors ate. They ate meat, so I eat meat.

The reasoning is that on average, people who handled that diet best survived more often than people who did not mesh with that diet. I am a product of this procedure repeated many times, indicating there is a large probability I mesh with that diet well.

Different groups of humans primarily ate different things depending on environment, so knowledge of your heritage is of import. I'm sure all groups ate some form of meat, however.

Also, I don't care about our environment or that animals must die for me to eat them. It just doesn't seem fair for me and a small group to act responsibly when everyone else is having a blast (and perhaps gaining economic advantage too), polluting and eating meat. I'll only reform my views with these two things if everyone is forced to reform his view too. What's fair is fair.

 

[dipole]

I basically just look at things from a hierarchical order. I would feel very uncomfortable eating anything that's directly below me on the food chain - cats, dogs, wild predators, whales etc... things which have no natural predators (at least not usually). But animals lower on the food chain are fair game IMO. A big exception to this is animals that live in areas not traditionally occupied by human beings (seals for example), and animals whose populations are under stress or in danger of extinction, regardless of their place on the food chain.

That being said, I am very against eating wild animals, because I don't like destruction of natural beautiful things. Any human-created breed, however, is perfectly delicious and acceptable in my opinion. A cow, pig, chicken, or whatever, is basically a crop in my view. It has the same status as a food item as a potato does.

 

[ME_student]

No, don't plan on being one any time soon either...

 

[alt]

That being said, I am very against eating wild animals, because I don't like destruction of natural beautiful things. Any human-created breed, however, is perfectly delicious and acceptable in my opinion. A cow, pig, chicken, or whatever, is basically a crop in my view. It has the same status as a food item as a potato does.

I would have thought the opposite. Wild animals, described by you as natural beautiful things, eat wild animals. Aboriginal races eat wild animals. Give me wild duck to chicken any day.

Here's a few lines from Dryden, which, absent of the God talk (if you're an athiest) is quite good, imo ..


By Chace our long-liv’d Fathers earned their Food;
Toil strung the Nerves, and purifi’d the Blood:
But we, their Sons, a pamper’d Race of Men,
Are dwindl’d down to threescore Years and ten.
Better to hunt in Fields, for Health unbought,
Than fee the Doctor for a nauseous Draught.
The Wise, for Cure, on Exercise depend;
God never made his Work, for Man to mend.

http://www.bartleby.com/204/31.html

 

[Evo]

I would have thought the opposite. Wild animals, described by you as natural beautiful things, eat wild animals. Aboriginal races eat wild animals. Give me wild duck to chicken any day.

Here's a few lines from Dryden, which, absent of the God talk (if you're an athiest) is quite good, imo ..


By Chace our long-liv’d Fathers earned their Food;
Toil strung the Nerves, and purifi’d the Blood:
But we, their Sons, a pamper’d Race of Men,
Are dwindl’d down to threescore Years and ten.
Better to hunt in Fields, for Health unbought,
Than fee the Doctor for a nauseous Draught.
The Wise, for Cure, on Exercise depend;
God never made his Work, for Man to mend.

http://www.bartleby.com/204/31.html

I wouldn't want a 17th century "doctor' to work on me either.