At which time did the CMB become dark?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transition of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) radiation from visible light to infrared as the universe expanded. Participants explore the age of the universe at which this transition occurred, considering various physical principles and cosmological models.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the CMB was initially a glowing yellowish-white radiation at 3000 K and became redder over time, eventually falling into the infrared spectrum.
  • Another participant provides a method to estimate the time of this transition using the relationship between the temperature of the CMB and the scale factor of the universe, referencing the Friedman equation for a matter-dominated universe.
  • A different viewpoint suggests there is no hard threshold for when the CMB became dark, indicating that it gradually got darker over time, with specific temperatures corresponding to redshifts and ages after the Big Bang.
  • One participant discusses the role of Compton scattering in the behavior of photons in plasma, noting that this phenomenon affects visibility and relates to the conditions of the universe during the CMB's emission.
  • Another participant reiterates the impact of Compton scattering, emphasizing that the discussed events occurred after the plasma recombined, making scattering negligible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the transition from visible to infrared, with some proposing specific temperatures and redshifts while others argue that the transition was gradual without a clear threshold. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact age of the universe at which the CMB turned from red to infrared.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on various assumptions about cosmological models and the behavior of radiation in different conditions, which may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion includes references to specific temperatures and redshifts that are contingent on the chosen cosmological framework.

Gerinski
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At the time the CMB was emitted it was a glowing yellowish-white radiation at 3000 K. From there as space expanded it became redder and redder eventually falling into what for humans is non-visible infrared.
At which age of the universe did the CMB background turn from red to infrared?
Thanks
 
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To estimate this, you need to know:
-the dependence of the temperature ##T## of the CMB with time/scale factor ##a## of the universe, which is roughly ##T \propto \frac{1}{a}##
-the evolution of the scale factor with time, from the Friedman equation which gives for a matter-dominated universe ##\frac{a}{a_0}=(\frac{t}{t_0})^{2/3}##
Then you can get the ##t## you look for by choosing the temperature you want in the following equation: ##t = t_0(\frac{T_0}{T})^{3/2}## where ##t_0## would be present time (13.8 billion years) and ##T_0## would be the present temperature of the CMB, 2.73 Kelvin degrees.
 
There is no hard threshold, it just got darker over time. Based on those arbitrary categories, thermal radiation becomes visible somewhere around 525°C, or ~800 K. Today the temperature is 2.7 K, so we are talking about z=300. Based on this cosmology calculator, this was around 3 million years after the Big Bang.

"Cherry red" at 1000 K corresponds to z=370, 2.2 million years after the Big Bang.
 
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Thanks a lot.
 
Chronos said:
Photons do not play well in plasma, largely due to a phenomenon known as Compton scattering. This same effect makes it difficult to see anything below the atmosphere of a star. For futher discussion, see; https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Sept05/Gawiser2/Gawiser1.html, ORIGIN OF THE COSMIC BACKGROUND RADIATION.
Everything discussed in this thread happened after the plasma recombined enough to make scattering negligible. That is the whole point of the CMB. The hydrogen got re-ionized much later (>100 million years), but at that time it was so spread out that it didn't make the universe opaque any more.
 
Moderator's note: some off topic posts have been removed.
 

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