Atheism meant the belief of no god

[arildno]

1 ."There has never existed, exist or will ever exist an elephant with blue ears and huge batwings attached to its back"
2. "Once it existed or exists or will exist an elephant with blue ears and huge batwings attached to its back".

Either one of these statements might be true, right?
And, furthermore, one of these statements MUST be true?

So, does it therefore follow that it is equally intellectually respectable to pick either one of them?

 

[nameless]

Considering what you have responded with I don't understand how I have misrepresented you. I simply don't agree with your convention that a belief is a fiction.

You are right. My error. I thought about that afterwards and realized that you didn't really misrepresent.
Perhaps what 'goaded' me to respond was the way you just dismissed my experience in passing. Perhaps if you said that "I have a different take on the matter than nameless.."
I guess that 'egoic' response of mine was not called for.
Apologies.

 

[arildno]

Not at all. We can never know, conclusively, whether it was,is, or will be.

That is totally irrelevant.
One of the statements is true, the other is false.

It is, however, sheer nonsense to believe in 2.

It is equally nonsensical to believe in the existence of a god.

 

[nameless]

Originally Posted by arildno
Either one of these statements might be true, right?

Might.

And, furthermore, one of these statements MUST be true?

Not at all. We can never know, conclusively, whether it was,is, or will be. Would it 'count' if I dreamed up your elephant tonight when I sleep? Would that bring it into 'existence'?

So, does it therefore follow that it is equally intellectually respectable to pick either one of them?

Pick either one for what? Dinner? A 'belief'? A 'world view'?

Speaking of which - Stephen Gould (An evolutionist at Harvard and a Nobel prize winner as I recal) came up with a so-called "Proof" that God does not exist. I was wondering if someone knew where I could find that article online? Thanks.

Just goes to illustrate how someone can be absolutely brilliant in one area and turn into a 'drooling idiot' when emotionally held 'beliefs' are in question. Ego vs intellect.. and never the twain shall meet!

 

[nameless]

That is totally irrelevant.
One of the statements is true, the other is false.

Shall I take your word for it or are you able to offer definitive proof of your assertion?

 

[Smasherman]

Langauge is a poor carrier of thought. The argument seems to be merely a matter of definition. So there isn't actually a valid argument here, since definitions vary widely. The definition I use, however, is Psi 5's.

I was going to write about the nature of perception as well, but that doesn't belong here.

 

[arildno]

Shall I take your word for it or are you able to offer definitive proof of your assertion?

It doesn't need proof, since there is no third alternative.

 

[nameless]

Lack of a third option neither affirms or negates your first two assertions.
If you cannot answer my questions, just say so and I'll leave you alone.

 

[arildno]

Lack of a third option neither affirms or negates your first two assertions.
If you cannot answer my questions, just say so and I'll leave you alone.

You are evidently seriously defective in mental capacities. Goodbye.

 

[nameless]

Hahahahahahaha...
I liked your first posting before the 'correction';

You are evidently serious defective in mental capacioties. Goodbye.

Hehehe..
What can I say?
It's bad karma to be nasty to the handicapped!
Hahahaha...

 

[pmb_phy]

Just goes to illustrate how someone can be absolutely brilliant in one area and turn into a 'drooling idiot' when emotionally held 'beliefs' are in question. Ego vs intellect.. and never the twain shall meet!

True. However, I'd still like to read the article again. I was looking for a very proof "proof" of the non-existance of God and his was the absolute worst I've ever came across. Thanks.

Pete

 

[pmb_phy]

I think that to an atheist, the question of whether God exists is useless. There is just no need for God, and if God does exist, who cares?

Woa! Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if there was a person who used to be an atheist and then changed his mind then he'd still think there'd be no reason to care? If this is what you're saying then do you actually believe this would happen in anyone who became a believer from an atheist?

There's no reason to think that he affects us.

Why do you say that? Jews, Christians and Muslims, a very significant portion of the worlds mono-theistic religions, believes that God affects our lives and continues to do so. Ho did you arrive at such a belief? Do you know a lot of atheists who became believers?
[quite]That said, atheists do like to speculate.[/QUOTE]Why? To get anywhere scientists speculate in order to make a first move toward a theory.

Pete

 

[pmb_phy]

I think that to an atheist, the question of whether God exists is useless. There is just no need for God, and if God does exist, who cares?

Woa! Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if there was a person who used to be an atheist and then changed his mind then he'd still think there'd be no reason to care? If this is what you're saying then do you actually believe this would happen in anyone who became a believer from an atheist?

There's no reason to think that he affects us.

IF we take as the part of the definition of "God" That intelligent being who created the universe then I'd say he had a lot to do that has affected us - He created us! Unless you look at God as a non-absent parent who gives birth and then takes off. In that case the birth still toof place.

But I don't understand why you'd say that anyway? Is this a matter of opinion as far as what believers actually believem? If so then recall that Jews, Christians and Muslims, a very significant portion of the worlds mono-theistic religions, believes that God affects our lives and continues to do so. How did you arrive at such a belief? Do you know a lot of atheists who became believers?

That said, atheists do like to speculate.

Why? To get anywhere scientists speculate in order to make a first move toward a theory.

Pete

 

[arrow]

It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes.

I believe the Bible is the only specific revelation from God to man. II Timothy 3:16

I believe the Bible is the only supernatural book in the world, and that it is the source of faith from God to man. Romans 10:17

I believe God states that a man's morality dictates his theology. Romans 1:17-32.

In regards to atheists God says that the fool has said in his heart "no, God."

If my belief in God and heaven is wrong I will not have lost much in this life. If an atheist is wrong he will have lost eternity.

As a Christian this world is the worst hell I will know. As an atheist this world is the best heaven he will know.

If someone knocks on your door be glad because it is God's love through them to you...caring about your eternal happiness. (www.desiringgod.org)

 

[Nomy-the wanderer]

Atheism for me is a constant denial for God's existence...

 

[Rade]

It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes.

Perhaps, but neither are there any true Christians either, for if anything is clear in the philosophy, it is that one must love those that hate you.

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

I am an Atheist, but I have never heard of Gould's proof. I would also be interested in reading it. I am already confident that God doesn't exist, of course, but I am always interested in reading more on the matter.

For those interested in Atheism, I would, if you haven't already, look into reading the opinions of Richard Dawkins, a Strong Atheist/Antitheist. He has some interesting arguments that involve reductionism and the proper application of modern scientific theory into spiritual matters.

 

[arrow]

Perhaps, but neither are there any true Christians either, for if anything is clear in the philosophy, it is that one must love those that hate you.

Yes, we are to love our personal enemies. We aren't perfect, only forgiven. God's definition of a "true" Christian is a soul that has by faith trusted in Jesus Christ's death on the Cross for sin. John 3:16

Nationally however, God ordained each nation to have authority & responsibility to defend.

 

[mugsby]

i'm an atheist becuase i 'believe' there is no god, you can't prove there is one way or another so i chose what i 'believed' to be logical in the absence of blind faith.

confusing ain't it.

 

[kcballer21]

Woa! Let me get this straight. Are you saying that if there was a person who used to be an atheist and then changed his mind then he'd still think there'd be no reason to care? If this is what you're saying then do you actually believe this would happen in anyone who became a believer from an atheist?
Why do you say that? Jews, Christians and Muslims, a very significant portion of the worlds mono-theistic religions, believes that God affects our lives and continues to do so. Ho did you arrive at such a belief? Do you know a lot of atheists who became believers?
[quite]That said, atheists do like to speculate.

Why? To get anywhere scientists speculate in order to make a first move toward a theory.
Pete[/QUOTE]
I never said anything about someone who used to be an atheist, that is a meaningless description. A person who used to be an atheist is not an atheist. (sorry to be redundant)
How do believers arrive at their beliefs? Is there some sort of overwhelming evidence? I was only speaking for atheists, or what my idea of atheism is.

 

[sameandnot]

what does everyone mean when they talk/think about God? I just want some ideas that people are judging with. this is surely the most important question here.

 

[sameandnot]

we should analyze this together, when we have a good definition. we should be able to find out what it means and then it will be infinitely easier to evaluate its existence... agreed?

 

[sameandnot]

i mean: how can you argue for or against something, when you are unclear as to what it is that you are arguing for or against? we will base this examination on intelligence and reason, rather than emotion.

 

[sameandnot]

ok, so we know that someone is going to give the "classic" definition of God, namely: and being that is omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, am i missing some necessary characteristic?

what does that mean? what is such a being? any other definitions are welcome.

 

[sameandnot]

there is the common conception, i perceive, of god, where god is something like a human standing outside of the universe, or maybe also inside of it, or maybe...

what does the word omnipotent mean, for example?

Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power. This trait is usually attributed only to God. Theists hold that examples of God's omnipotence include Creation and miracles.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotent

"all power" gives something of a different conception, doesn't it?

 

[sameandnot]

so... is it that omniscience means "all knowledge" and omnibenevolent means something like "all goodness"?

what a different picture this is painting, already!

 

[sameandnot]

so i am still wondering what is meant by God, to the people of this post and forum in general.

 

[sameandnot]

funny, how no one asked this question, but there were already four pages of debate, before i got here... maybe i am just out of the loop... or maybe assumption is running this gig... or maybe i am just dumb...

 

[sameandnot]

hmmmmmm...

 

[Rade]

God's definition of a "true" Christian is a soul that has by faith trusted in Jesus Christ's death on the Cross for sin. John 3:16

No, this is false, this is not what Jesus taught. Since this reference to John 3:16 was not deleted as a violation of forum rules, I will assume I can continue the argument. First, "God" never defined the "true Christian", in fact the term was not even used by Jesus, let alone God. Your quote of John 3:16 is John's philosophy, but clearly not the thinking of Jesus. We get to what Jesus would say about this in Luke 10:25-37. By any definition, a "true Christian" must be a human that wishes to have eternal life after death. And, in Luke 10:25 we see that Jesus addressed this issue...thus he was asked by a lawyer " ...what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And note that Jesus then asked then lawyer ...what is written in the law, how readest you ? And when the lawyer gave the correct answer derived from " the law"...note what Jesus said, he said ..."thou hast answered right, this do, and thou shalt live". So, you are welcome to put your faith on what "John 3:16" says, but I select to put my faith on what Jesus says, e.g., the "true christian" ...follows the law... and loves God with all his/her heart and soul .... By his own words, Jesus died on the cross and was raised so that all humans would realize that when he said we must "follow the law" to have eternal life, he really meant it.