Atom energy band formation and electron allotment

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the formation of energy bands in atoms and the electron allotment process as described by the Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics (QM). It clarifies that energy bands are not applicable to single atoms but rather to bulk matter, and that atomic energy levels are derived from solving Schrödinger's equation. The Pauli exclusion principle is identified as the mechanism preventing additional electrons from entering an already filled energy band, ensuring a one-to-one pairing with protons.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of quantum mechanics principles, particularly the Copenhagen Interpretation.
  • Familiarity with Schrödinger's equation and its application in quantum systems.
  • Knowledge of the Pauli exclusion principle and its implications for electron configurations.
  • Concept of atomic energy levels versus energy bands in bulk matter.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of atomic energy levels from Schrödinger's equation.
  • Explore the implications of the Pauli exclusion principle on electron configurations in atoms.
  • Research the differences between atomic energy levels and energy bands in solid-state physics.
  • Read Ghirardi's book for a deeper understanding of quantum interpretations and their implications.
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics, particularly those focused on quantum mechanics, atomic theory, and solid-state physics, will benefit from this discussion.

Clueless123
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
This is actually a two-part question:

1) According to the Copenhagen Interpretation, atoms have energy bands but there's no explanation of how these bands are derived, or why they only form for protons/antiprotons. Any thoughts?

2) The Copenhagen Interpretation mentions that when an atom's energy band has a full allotment of electrons, the energy band neutralizes that prevents additional electrons from entering (to ensure a one-to-one pairing with protons). Is there a detailed, step-by-step explanation of how this neutralization process manifests by the atom? Of how the additional electrons are prevented from entering the band?
 
  • Skeptical
Likes   Reactions: Motore, weirdoguy, PeroK and 1 other person
Physics news on Phys.org
Clueless123 said:
This is actually a two-part question:

1) According to the Copenhagen Interpretation, atoms have energy bands but there's no explanation of how these bands are derived, or why they only form for protons/antiprotons. Any thoughts?

2) The Copenhagen Interpretation mentions that when an atom's energy band has a full allotment of electrons, the energy band neutralizes that prevents additional electrons from entering (to ensure a one-to-one pairing with protons). Is there a detailed, step-by-step explanation of how this neutralization process manifests by the atom? Of how the additional electrons are prevented from entering the band?
What references are these statements based upon?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71, PeterDonis and PeroK
Clueless123 said:
This is actually a two-part question:
For the first question, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "...only form for protons/antiprotons". If you could tell us what source you're using for this statement we might be better able to understand the question.
For the second question, atomic energy levels and the shell filling rules appear when we solve Schrödinger's equation for electrons bound in an atom (although when we do this exercise in our first-year QM class we take the exclusion principle as an additional assumption - the rigorous proof of that comes a few years later). So the step-by-step explanation is the step-by-step solution to Schrödinger's equation.

The Copenhagen interpretation has pretty much nothing to do with any of this.

In one of your other threads a week or so ago I suggested that you might want to try Ghirardi's book. That was good advice then and it still is.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and hutchphd
Clueless123 said:
According to the Copenhagen Interpretation
Clueless123 said:
The Copenhagen Interpretation
Discussions of particular interpretations of QM belong in the interpretations subforum, not this one.

However, it does not appear that your actual questions have anything to do with any particular interpretation. They look like straightforward questions about experimental predictions of QM, which are independent of any particular interpretation.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
PeterDonis said:
However, it does not appear that your actual questions have anything to do with any particular interpretati
Or reality.

Single atoms have energy levels. Bulk matter has energy bands.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
Clueless123 said:
This is actually a two-part question:

1) According to the Copenhagen Interpretation, atoms have energy bands but there's no explanation of how these bands are derived, or why they only form for protons/antiprotons. Any thoughts?
The physics is independent of the interpretation (or only dependent on the minimal interpretation needed to connect the abstract mathematical formalism of QT with real-world observations). According to QT an atom is described by a Hamiltonian, which has a spectrum which has a discrete part (describing "bound states") and a continuous part (describing "scattering states"). There are no "energy bands". This is a notion related to macrocopic matter, particularly solid bodies/crystals.
Clueless123 said:
2) The Copenhagen Interpretation mentions that when an atom's energy band has a full allotment of electrons, the energy band neutralizes that prevents additional electrons from entering (to ensure a one-to-one pairing with protons). Is there a detailed, step-by-step explanation of how this neutralization process manifests by the atom? Of how the additional electrons are prevented from entering the band?
Again this has nothing to do with whatever interpretation of QT you use. If I understand your pretty vague ideas right, you are referring to the Pauli exclusion principle, which is valid for fermions, and electrons are fermions. It says that the many-electron wavefunctions are completely antisymmetric under exchange of any two electrons. This implies that no single-electron states can be occupied with more than one electron, and this leads to the "shell structure" of the atoms.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
8K