Atom Nucleus: Orbital Path & Pattern Explained

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    Atoms Orbital Path
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of electron orbits in an atom, specifically addressing whether electrons occupy circular orbits around the nucleus, the patterns of electron capacity in different shells, and the implications of quantum mechanics (QM) on these concepts. Participants explore the transition from Bohr's model to modern quantum mechanics and the limitations of these models in accurately describing electron behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electrons do not occupy circular orbits in the same way planets orbit the sun, citing a fundamental principle in quantum mechanics that prevents tracking electron positions at any given time.
  • Others explain that Bohr's model has been largely replaced by modern quantum mechanics, which provides a different understanding of electron behavior and orbits.
  • Participants discuss the concept of "orbits" in quantum mechanics, noting that they refer to subshells rather than fixed paths, and that the maximum number of electrons in each subshell is dictated by the Pauli exclusion principle.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about why there is a limited number of electrons in discrete shells, prompting further exploration of the Pauli principle, which states that no two electrons can occupy the same quantum state.
  • Another participant elaborates on the Pauli principle, explaining that the innermost shell can accommodate two electrons (with opposite spins), while subsequent shells can hold more due to having additional states available.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the classical view of electron orbits is inadequate and that quantum mechanics provides a more accurate framework. However, there remains some uncertainty regarding the specific reasons for the limitations on electron capacity in shells and the implications of these principles.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the quantum mechanical model of electrons, including the dependence on definitions of "orbits" and the need for a deeper understanding of quantum mechanics to fully grasp the behavior of electrons in atoms.

shina
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An nucleus of an atom is really surrounded by circular orbits or not. And why there is a pattern that orbit k can contain only two electrons, orbit l can contain only 8 electrons and so on. But at some places I observe that the nucleus of an atom is surrounded by cloud like structure containing electrons. So what is true, according to Bohr's model of atom electron moves around nucleus in a specific place which is later considered orbit.
 
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shina said:
An nucleus of an atom is really surrounded by circular orbits or not.
The answer is no, not in the same sense as planets revolves around the sun. There is one fundamental principle in QM which prevents you from tracking the position of those electrons in any given time.
shina said:
So what is true, according to Bohr's model of atom electron moves around nucleus in a specific place which is later considered orbit.
Bohr's model of atom has long been put aside and replaced by modern QM.
shina said:
And why there is a pattern that orbit k can contain only two electrons, orbit l can contain only 8 electrons and so on.
What is meant by "orbit" around the nucleus does not exactly have the same physical meaning as the planetary orbits. Orbit in QM mechanics refers to the so-called subshell of the corresponding atom. Following the theory of each electron being subjected under an effective potential, it turns out that you can describe the orbit/subshell of each electron similar to those as in hydrogen-like atom. The maximum number of electrons allowed to occupy a given orbit/subshell is required by Pauli exclusion principle.
 
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blue_leaf77 said:
The answer is no, no in the same sense as planets revolves around the sun. There is one fundamental principle in QM which prevents you from tracking the position of those electrons in any given time.

Bohr's model of atom has long been put aside and replaced by modern QM.

What is meant by "orbit" around the nucleus does not exactly have the same physical meaning as the planetary orbits. Orbit in QM mechanics refers to the so-called subshell of the corresponding atom. Following the theory of each electron being subjected under an effective potential, it turns out that you can describe the orbit/subshell of each electron similar to those as in hydrogen-like atom. The maximum number of electrons allowed to occupy a given orbit/subshell is required by Pauli exclusion principle.
Yaa I am truly satisfied with you but I don't know the reason that why limited number of electrons are there in discrete shell around nucleus of an atom
 
Pauli principle: No two electrons can be in the same state. The innermost shell just has two states (spin up and spin down for the same wave function in space), the next shell has 8 (4 pairs of spin up and down each), and so on. A very reasonable sounding, but not really accurate model: larger shells have "more space" for more different states. A better explanation would need some more understanding of quantum mechanics.
 
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mfb said:
Pauli principle: No two electrons can be in the same state. The innermost shell just has two states (spin up and spin down for the same wave function in space), the next shell has 8 (4 pairs of spin up and down each), and so on. A very reasonable sounding, but not really accurate model: larger shells have "more space" for more different states. A better explanation would need some more understanding of quantum mechanics.
I am fully satisfied with you mfb. Thanks for your reply
 

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