Avoiding homelessness on short timescale

[G037H3]

Congrats, you came to a realization at least half this thread was trying to get you to make on your own or something finally sunk in. Either way :)


It's not much to ask of yourself, but it's a lot to ask of another person. Imagine if someone came up to you and was like "hi, can you take on the responsibility of fixing me?" It sounds like this guy was pretty young, so while I am sorry that you've gotten your hopes up (I'm all mopey whenever that happens to me), I can understand why he'd reconsider when he really thought about how much would be involved.


You could accomplish it on your own and all, but a competent therapist and good support groups could help you leagues in gaining to the tools to get there.


Nobody's saying you are.


Unless you're out their raping, pillaging, and murdering, I don't think you've quite hit the lesser person mark. Congrats on still being a teen, it means you've still got lots of time to live up to your potential, but that means getting yourself sorted out.

I don't want to become disillusioned, because the reflections I see are the promise of a more truthful existence. It's difficult to avoid developing hatred when my ideals are constantly under assault by the decrepit and corrupt world.

Yes, but you must keep in mind that just as I have a natural need to submit emotionally, others have a natural need to dominate emotionally. Wasn't a guy. I was completely open with them about all of my ideals and preferences. They had data pertaining to many of my ideals before they even propositioned me.

Support groups would not be a good idea. I would become frustrated at their lack of understanding. The same could be said of a therapist, but at least then I have the opportunity to vent. My only issues are with my gender, and with depression stemming from lack of opportunity to have a functional relationship.

I'm not a teen for long. I feel really old. =_=

 

[Vanadium 50]

I don't want to become disillusioned, because the reflections I see are the promise of a more truthful existence. It's difficult to avoid developing hatred when my ideals are constantly under assault by the decrepit and corrupt world.

Good lord. Enough with the drama.

May I remind you that, now that you are on food benefits, that the only reason you are eating is because this "decrepit and corrupt world has decided to share its food with you. In most times and places, the unproductive members of society starved to death. This society has decided that nobody should starve to death - but try not to confuse justice with mercy.

Support groups would not be a good idea. I would become frustrated at their lack of understanding.

For all your complaining about prejudice in others, you're pretty fast to show some yourself.

Right now you are on a path that ends with homelessness and being gang-raped in a dark alley by a group of predators. It is your decision whether to stay on this path or not. If not, you need to do two things immediately: (1) get into counseling, and (2) get a job. This will not be a very good job. There will be parts of it that you won't like. That is why they call it "work" and that is why they have to pay people to do it. The sooner you get this fantasy out of your head that someone will pay you $30K a year to work part-time writing Python (a language, I point out, that you do not know), the better.

 

[G037H3]

Good lord. Enough with the drama.

May I remind you that, now that you are on food benefits, that the only reason you are eating is because this "decrepit and corrupt world has decided to share its food with you. In most times and places, the unproductive members of society starved to death. This society has decided that nobody should starve to death - but try not to confuse justice with mercy.



For all your complaining about prejudice in others, you're pretty fast to show some yourself.

Right now you are on a path that ends with homelessness and being gang-raped in a dark alley by a group of predators. It is your decision whether to stay on this path or not. If not, you need to do two things immediately: (1) get into counseling, and (2) get a job. This will not be a very good job. There will be parts of it that you won't like. That is why they call it "work" and that is why they have to pay people to do it. The sooner you get this fantasy out of your head that someone will pay you $30K a year to work part-time writing Python (a language, I point out, that you do not know), the better.

I wouldn't be in this position had I grown up in Western Europe. So yes, I will state that a lot of environmental factors are very unfair to me.

Prejudice -> pre-judge. I wait until I have knowledge before judging.

Correct. But job comes before counseling, because there are few free options. -_-

I don't think I'll make $30K between a point near the present, and a year from that point. I think I can do that a year from now. Right now I only need $400+ a month to survive.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I wouldn't be in this position had I grown up in Western Europe. So yes, I will state that a lot of environmental factors are very unfair to me.

And had you grown up in Iran you would have been stoned to death.

Prejudice -> pre-judge. I wait until I have knowledge before judging.

Actually, you don't. You just said that support groups wouldn't understand you based on exactly zero evidence.

Right now I only need $400+ a month to survive.

And nobody is going to pay you that to write Python.

 

[cristo]

I wouldn't be in this position had I grown up in Western Europe.

Why not? Europeans aren't too keen on the work-shy either.

 

[story645]

Yes, but you must keep in mind that just as I have a natural need to submit emotionally, others have a natural need to dominate emotionally.

Even naturally dom people tend to not want to be the dom full time.

I was completely open with them about all of my ideals and preferences. They had data pertaining to many of my ideals before they even propositioned me.

Data doesn't mean much before someone actually talking to someone.

Support groups would not be a good idea. I would become frustrated at their lack of understanding.

Yeah, I'm sure other GLBTQ youth on the verge of homelessness would totally misunderstand you. There's a reason why I'm suggesting you go to support groups run by organizations established to help kids just like you.

I'm not a teen for long. I feel really old.

Gah, why does every kid I talk to seem to think this way? (See, you're so not alone). I'm not much older than you and I still think of myself as a kid. You've still got plenty of time to clean up your act and get it straightened out.

 

[G037H3]

And had you grown up in Iran you would have been stoned to death.



Actually, you don't. You just said that support groups wouldn't understand you based on exactly zero evidence.



And nobody is going to pay you that to write Python.

Good thing I'm not an Iranian, huh? Isn't it wonderful that some things aren't based on chance?

Just because I don't put forth reasons does not mean that I haven't discussed it.

Not right now. Near future, yes, most likely.

 

[G037H3]

Why not? Europeans aren't too keen on the work-shy either.

my point was that I would have presumably had a healthy way to distinguish myself from others, which I lacked growing up

 

[G037H3]

Even naturally dom people tend to not want to be the dom full time.


Data doesn't mean much before someone actually talking to someone.


Yeah, I'm sure other GLBTQ youth on the verge of homelessness would totally misunderstand you. There's a reason why I'm suggesting you go to support groups run by organizations established to help kids just like you.


Gah, why does every kid I talk to seem to think this way? (See, you're so not alone). I'm not much older than you and I still think of myself as a kid. You've still got plenty of time to clean up your act and get it straightened out.

I realize that. I'm what is known as a 'natural submissive', I'm pretty easy to manage/control in the context of a relationship. So that isn't really a good explanation...

Data helps to weed out those who cannot stand my societal and philosophical views.

Good point. I'll look into whether or not there are groups in Seattle that cater to GLBT youth, and especially trans, since TG people have it rougher in a lot of ways. =/

Everyone seems to ignore that I've partially been trying to get a job for months, and haven't had one interview.

 

[JaredJames]

my point was that I would have presumably had a healthy way to distinguish myself from others, which I lacked growing up

Speaking as a Western European person, what way are you talking about here?

 

[JaredJames]

Goethe, you are making a lot of assumptions ranging from assuming you are going to be a good programmer to assuming you are 'alone and there's no help available'.

Firstly, people leaving university with degrees don't always walk into $30k jobs and so you getting to that point after a year (or three years even) isn't realistic. Even if you are the best out there, without qualifications and some proof you are good at it (past jobs) you won't even get close to that.

Now, so far as everything else, I think the other posts here cover it nicely.

If you aren't going to take advice on board then there's little point anyone providing you with it. We're giving you advice and telling you how things actually are, not how they are in your world. All you can do is throw excuses at us and complain about "the decrepit and corrupt world".

 

[G037H3]

Speaking as a Western European person, what way are you talking about here?

academic ways to assert my intellect

the high school i was in kicked me out because i was frighteningly sharp =/ though i never talked to anyone unless i absolutely had to



also, other than temp agencies and looking into some sort of GLBT/TG support organization, what else do i have in terms of options/alternatives

contingency planning, and all that, and you people seem to live in the constructed world much more than i do :P

 

[JaredJames]

academic ways to assert my intellect

the high school i was in kicked me out because i was frighteningly sharp =/ though i never talked to anyone unless i absolutely had to

"frighteningly sharp" - can you explain this to me before I respond?

Also, what were their exact reasons given. I doubt they used that particular phrase.

Constructed world? As opposed to 'in your mind' as you keep talking about?

 

[G037H3]

Goethe, you are making a lot of assumptions ranging from assuming you are going to be a good programmer to assuming you are 'alone and there's no help available'.

Firstly, people leaving university with degrees don't always walk into $30k jobs and so you getting to that point after a year (or three years even) isn't realistic. Even if you are the best out there, without qualifications and some proof you are good at it (past jobs) you won't even get close to that.

Now, so far as everything else, I think the other posts here cover it nicely.

If you aren't going to take advice on board then there's little point anyone providing you with it. We're giving you advice and telling you how things actually are, not how they are in your world. All you can do is throw excuses at us and complain about "the decrepit and corrupt world".

I know that I assume things, but everyone does, so it isn't really a damning thing to say.

A degree doesn't mean that someone is capable or bright. Many more people are in uni/college than there should be.

If I'm good (and I have taken every opportunity to have those more experienced than I give their opinion), then it isn't out of touch with reality.

I'm not going to argue which viewpoint is closer to reality. I've already stated that the opinions expressed by others conform more strongly to a basal constructed view of society.

Perhaps I work towards making myself deal with immoral necessities by talking about my options.

 

[G037H3]

"frighteningly sharp" - can you explain this to me before I respond?

Also, what were their exact reasons given. I doubt they used that particular phrase.

Constructed world? As opposed to 'in your mind' as you keep talking about?

'frighteningly sharp' = I speak to no one, unless I am disturbed, and then I play the role of Socrates...people cannot handle learning of their own ignorance

Their exact reasons were a supposed threat, which is interesting, because I never talked to anyone or had any friends. It was an excuse to stick me in a room for several months, and then bend the law to expel me. Religious, stupid, sexually repressed people. So funny.

'Constructed world' refers to a network of reinforced beliefs that are developed with the abuse of Ockham's Razor, as well as a sickening obedience to authority, and a severe case of cognitive dissonance resulting from blatant hypocrisy concerning major societal issues.

 

[JaredJames]

I know that I assume things, but everyone does, so it isn't really a damning thing to say.

Yes, but your assumptions are quite extreme.

A degree doesn't mean that someone is capable or bright. Many more people are in uni/college than there should be.

A person sitting a degree must have a minimum knowledge / intellect to get on the course (entry requirements shown by previous qualifications). You gain knowledge on your degree and when you leave, your degree shows you have the knowledge required to gain that degree. So an employer has a minimum knowledge level to gauge you by.

No degree means there is no way to prove you have this level of knowledge (unless you have another way to do so, which you don't).

I'm not going to argue which viewpoint is closer to reality. I've already stated that the opinions expressed by others conform more strongly to a basal constructed view of society.

Closer to reality? Goethe, leave the philosophical crap out of it. You have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you don't understand how things actually work in the real world. Whether you agree with said 'real world' or not is irrelevant. That is how it works.

Perhaps I work towards making myself deal with immoral necessities by talking about my options.

What is and isn't immoral is a personal issue, and so what you consider immoral doesn't always match up to what others do.

 

[JaredJames]

'frighteningly sharp' = I speak to no one, unless I am disturbed, and then I play the role of Socrates...people cannot handle learning of their own ignorance

Wow, you complain of being alone and wanting someone to look after you and then you post this. It says it all.

Instead of looking at your interaction from your point of view, try seeing it from theirs. I would consider anyone who reacted like you've described above when I spoke to them as a total pr*ck.

 

[G037H3]

Yes, but your assumptions are quite extreme.


A person sitting a degree must have a minimum knowledge / intellect to get on the course (entry requirements shown by previous qualifications). You gain knowledge on your degree and when you leave, your degree shows you have the knowledge required to gain that degree. So an employer has a minimum knowledge level to gauge you by.

No degree means there is no way to prove you have this level of knowledge (unless you have another way to do so, which you don't).


Closer to reality? Goethe, leave the philosophical crap out of it. You have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you don't understand how things actually work in the real world. Whether you agree with said 'real world' or not is irrelevant. That is how it works.


What is and isn't immoral is a personal issue, and so what you consider immoral doesn't always match up to what others do.

To assume that the modern world is healthy is a rather extreme assumption, as well.

A degree alone doesn't show much other than a pretty low minimum intellect, coupled with proof that someone is able to navigate silly social systems that are set up based on flawed ideas.

I understand *how* things work. I just see things from a very different perspective. When I glance at the structure of society and convention, I see something completely different. I already know that my depression and needs make it much more difficult to think in terms of asserting myself towards things and others, when that is almost always a necessity.

Reread what I wrote.

Wow, you complain of being alone and wanting someone to look after you and then you post this. It says it all.

Instead of looking at your interaction from your point of view, try seeing it from theirs. I would consider anyone who reacted like you've described above when I spoke to them as a total pr*ck.

I'm not indiscriminately like that. If I can tell that someone is normal, I am, but if someone strikes up a conversation about something interesting, I am friendly, although very shy. If they offer some sort of implicit evidence of intelligence and morality, then I open myself up quite a bit.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

I know that I assume things, but everyone does, so it isn't really a damning thing to say.

Well assuming the wrong thing, and sticking with the assumption in the face of overwhelming evidence against it, is clearly madness.

A degree doesn't mean that someone is capable or bright. Many more people are in uni/college than there should be.

If they graduate and get a degree, it means they learned what they were taught, and functioned acceptably in the academic environment. It's a good stepping stone to a functional career, although not a guarantee (social skills are important as well). You should take stock of that before you start bashing the "drones with college degrees" here (there are a lot of them btw).

If I'm good (and I have taken every opportunity to have those more experienced than I give their opinion), then it isn't out of touch with reality.

You seem pretty out of touch with reality to me... For a start you still haven't heeded the advice to get a job, any job, asap.

I'm not going to argue which viewpoint is closer to reality. I've already stated that the opinions expressed by others conform more strongly to a basal constructed view of society.

Definition: Reality
Reality, in everyday usage, means "the state of things as they actually exist." Literally, the term denotes what is real; in its widest sense, this includes everything that is, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality"

In the context in which it is being discussed here, reality referrs to what is required to gain a productive level of functionality in society (e.g. job, friends, etc.). For example, reality dictates you will not be able to get a job programming simple freelance projects without some level of education, drive, experience, and capability of working with others.

'frighteningly sharp' = I speak to no one, unless I am disturbed, and then I play the role of Socrates...people cannot handle learning of their own ignorance

An arrogant, condescending loner that refused to interact with anyone. I wouldn't call that "sharp" by any stretch of the term. It sounds to me like you had a higher-than-thou attitude and felt like you were too smart to deal with mere mortals...

Social interaction is an important part of modern society. You don't have to be friends with everyone, but if you expect people to treat you with some level of respect they will expect that level of respect to be reciprocated. This is just as true now as it was when you got kicked out of high school.

Their exact reasons were a supposed threat, which is interesting, because I never talked to anyone or had any friends. It was an excuse to stick me in a room for several months, and then bend the law to expel me. Religious, stupid, sexually repressed people. So funny.

You probably made them nervous because you acted with contempt towards other students, refused social interaction, and I'm willing to bet didn't want to follow the learning plan either...

'Constructed world' refers to a network of reinforced beliefs that are developed with the abuse of Ockham's Razor,

To what are you referring?

as well as a sickening obedience to authority,

You're not convincing me you'd make a good employee... Why should someone pay you to work for them?

and a severe case of cognitive dissonance resulting from blatant hypocrisy concerning major societal issues.

And what does all this babble have to do with you not being able to get a job and pay your rent?!

 

[JaredJames]

To assume that the modern world is healthy is a rather extreme assumption, as well.

I've never assumed that.

A degree alone doesn't show much other than a pretty low minimum intellect, coupled with proof that someone is able to navigate silly social systems that are set up based on flawed ideas.

Pretty low intellect? How dare you. I find that offensive on so many different levels.

A degree shows you have passed exams and various other items such as assignments and reports etc. It shows that you were capable to do so and hold the knowledge required for it. The whole purpose of a degree is to show the person with it has a minimum working knowledge of the subject based on the degrees requirements.

Silly social systems? I don't know what you're on about now. More philosophical ramblings.

Reread what I wrote.

I have, it still says the same

I'm not indiscriminately like that. If I can tell that someone is normal, I am, but if someone strikes up a conversation about something interesting, I am friendly, although very shy. If they offer some sort of implicit evidence of intelligence and morality, then I open myself up quite a bit.

All things based on your own opinions. You are judging people on your own ideals and values which don't always hold true. I'm friends with plenty of people of ranging ability from incredibly intelligent to being as 'thick as a bulls kn*b' (to put it bluntly). Stereotyping people this way means you miss out on some fantastic friendship opportunities.

 

[G037H3]

Well assuming the wrong thing, and sticking with the assumption in the face of overwhelming evidence against it, is clearly madness.



If they graduate and get a degree, it means they learned what they were taught, and functioned acceptably in the academic environment. It's a good stepping stone to a functional career, although not a guarantee (social skills are important as well). You should take stock of that before you start bashing the "drones with college degrees" here (there are a lot of them btw).



You seem pretty out of touch with reality to me... For a start you still haven't heeded the advice to get a job, any job, asap.



Definition: Reality
Reality, in everyday usage, means "the state of things as they actually exist." Literally, the term denotes what is real; in its widest sense, this includes everything that is, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality"

In the context in which it is being discussed here, reality referrs to what is required to gain a productive level of functionality in society (e.g. job, friends, etc.). For example, reality dictates you will not be able to get a job programming simple freelance projects without some level of education, drive, experience, and capability of working with others.



An arrogant, condescending loner that refused to interact with anyone. I wouldn't call that "sharp" by any stretch of the term. It sounds to me like you had a higher-than-thou attitude and felt like you were too smart to deal with mere mortals...

Social interaction is an important part of modern society. You don't have to be friends with everyone, but if you expect people to treat you with some level of respect they will expect that level of respect to be reciprocated. This is just as true now as it was when you got kicked out of high school.



You probably made them nervous because you acted with contempt towards other students, refused social interaction, and I'm willing to bet didn't want to follow the learning plan either...



To what are you referring?



You're not convincing me you'd make a good employee... Why should someone pay you to work for them?



And what does all this babble have to do with you not being able to get a job and pay your rent?!

What is this 'wrong assumption' that you believe I maintain?

I've noticed that there are many here. The failure to address any of my problems that are actually personal, as opposed to societal/structural, shows as much.

Working on it. =/ I was sidetracked by what I thought would be a great relationship.

If I am not respected, then I will not play the silly social games that others wrap themselves in.

Learning plan? LOL

The 'constructed world' explanation was for jarednjames.

 

[JaredJames]

What is this 'wrong assumption' that you believe I maintain?

Well start with a person who has zero qualifications and work experience expecting to earn $30K with python and work from there.

Working on it. =/ I was sidetracked by what I thought would be a great relationship.

Great relationship? On what basis?

If I am not respected, then I will not play the silly social games that others wrap themselves in.

You earn respect.

 

[G037H3]

I've never assumed that.


Pretty low intellect? How dare you. I find that offensive on so many different levels.

A degree shows you have passed exams and various other items such as assignments and reports etc. It shows that you were capable to do so and hold the knowledge required for it. The whole purpose of a degree is to show the person with it has a minimum working knowledge of the subject based on the degrees requirements.

Silly social systems? I don't know what you're on about now. More philosophical ramblings.


I have, it still says the same


All things based on your own opinions. You are judging people on your own ideals and values which don't always hold true. I'm friends with plenty of people of ranging ability from incredibly intelligent to being as 'thick as a bulls kn*b' (to put it bluntly). Stereotyping people this way means you miss out on some fantastic friendship opportunities.

You (and other posters) have made strong assumptions about me, and refuse to even consider that my situation is out of the ordinary or contains difficulties that are out of the purview of mainstream existence.

Offended? You believe that 35% of society is intelligent? I'm afraid to ask how low your standards are, though I have an idea.

'Philosophical ramblings'? Philosophy is the only path to achieve meaningfulness in life.

You make the assumption that my inability to connect with normal people is due to my attitude, and not my nature. I'm unwilling to because normal people are extremely painful to be around.

I dislike using IQ as a way to communicate a comparative assessment of intelligence, but generally others tend to become bearable once they're over 135 IQ.

 

[G037H3]

Well start with a person who has zero qualifications and work experience expecting to earn $30K with python and work from there.Great relationship? On what basis?You earn respect.

I don't expect to start at $30K; I never said as much. I do expect to be able to cover rent starting a couple of months from now, if I keep up my current learning curve.

On the basis that they were above a minimum threshold to understand some of my motivations, and that they recognized some of my potential.

If someone refuses to drink from a certain well because it is unfamiliar, do you lead by example or do you search for a new well?

I'm taking a nap now, as fixing my sleep schedule is a top priority, and a nap shall constitute a small adjustment towards a symmetry between slumber and society.

 

[JaredJames]

You (and other posters) have made strong assumptions about me, and refuse to even consider that my situation is out of the ordinary or contains difficulties that are out of the purview of mainstream existence.

I've seen nothing so far that tells me you are outside of the ordinary.

Offended? You believe that 35% of society is intelligent? I'm afraid to ask how low your standards are, though I have an idea.

I have no idea what you're on about here. I judge intelligence on what a person knows. The more you know, whether broadly or in a specific field, the more intelligent I consider you.

'Philosophical ramblings'? Philosophy is the only path to achieve meaningfulness in life.

Which is why your life is so meaningful? This is complete and utter rubbish and again, is subject to what you consider meaningful. For me, live a meaningful life is to be a productive member of society.

You make the assumption that my inability to connect with normal people is due to my attitude, and not my nature. I'm unwilling to because normal people are extremely painful to be around.

Arrogance and self importance showing through a lot here. You aren't special, you aren't intelligent from what we've seen here and you seem to believe you are above us "normal" people. You aren't.

I dislike using IQ as a way to communicate a comparative assessment of intelligence, but generally others tend to become bearable once they're over 135 IQ.

Then you'll love me, I have an IQ of 156. But then I don't accept IQ tests as a measure of intelligence. They weren't designed to do that and are only good for testing a person for retardation. Otherwise they are useless.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

You (and other posters) have made strong assumptions about me, and refuse to even consider that my situation is out of the ordinary or contains difficulties that are out of the purview of mainstream existence.

I'm not interested in holding your hand and giving you a "you are unique and special" speech. I'm trying to be a voice of reason in this thread, telling you like it IS, even if you don't like it.

Offended? You believe that 35% of society is intelligent? I'm afraid to ask how low your standards are, though I have an idea.

It's completely ironic that you complain we are too quick to judge you, yet you appear to be even quicker to judge people to be unfit for your interaction if they don't meet your standards for "intelligence."

'Philosophical ramblings'? Philosophy is the only path to achieve meaningfulness in life.

Prove it! This sounds like a meaningless claim to me.

You make the assumption that my inability to connect with normal people is due to my attitude, and not my nature. I'm unwilling to because normal people are extremely painful to be around.

You're making the assumption that your "nature" makes you incapable of interacting with people. I think you need to grow up and realize the only thing holding you back is your toxic attitude towards others.

I dislike using IQ as a way to communicate a comparative assessment of intelligence, but generally others tend to become bearable once they're over 135 IQ.

 

[russ_watters]

Question: what does "meaningfulness" taste like?

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Question: what does "meaningfulness" taste like?

It certainly doesn't pay the bills!

 

[story645]

I'm pretty easy to manage/control in the context of a relationship. So that isn't really a good explanation...

So the one thing I've learned through years of watching other people's drama is that almost nobody has a really good self-perception of how he or she is in the context of a relationship, 'specially since a truly good perception would also require him or her to be in the partner's head.

also, other than temp agencies and looking into some sort of GLBT/TG support organization, what else do i have in terms of options/alternatives

Uh Starbucks, Mcdonalds, movie theaters, retail and volunteering->we've already covered the whole you don't have quals for much else.
As for the GLBTQ groups in Seattle? I posted a link to a list of them a couple of posts back.

Everyone seems to ignore that I've partially been trying to get a job for months, and haven't had one interview.

We're not, we're just pointing out that you seem to not be aiming for jobs that you can actually get (hence the lack of interviews.)

If I'm good (and I have taken every opportunity to have those more experienced than I give their opinion), then it isn't out of touch with reality.

But many of the posts, quite a few made by posters who are in programming/programming related fields, are pointing out that you are out of touch and telling you why. It's really not good enough to just be good, whatever you think that means. Most jobs have a technical interview portion, provided hr even let's you get that far (which with your resume, uh not likely.)

 

[dmatador]

Most likely, you are an ******* when you try to get jobs, much like you are in these forums. That is why people won't hire you, dear Socrates.