Axiom of Infinity and Garling, Theorem 1.7.4 - the successor set Z^+

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the Axiom of Infinity and the construction of the successor set $$Z^+$$ as presented in D. J. H. Garling's work. Participants explore the definitions and implications of successor sets, particularly in relation to Theorem 1.7.4, and seek clarification on the construction of $$Z^+$$ and its properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses confusion regarding the construction of the successor set $$Z^+$$, noting that his attempts lead to $$Z^+ = \emptyset$$, which he believes is incorrect.
  • Evgeny points out that the set $$S$$ provided by Peter is not a successor set because the element $$(a \cup \{ a \})^+$$ is not included in $$S$$ for all $$a$$.
  • Peter reformulates the set $$S$$ to include elements of the form $$\emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, a^+, a^{++},$$ etc., and proposes new subsets $$B_1, B_2, B_3, B_4$$ as potential successor sets.
  • Participants discuss that $$P(S)$$ contains infinitely many successor sets, and that the intersection of these sets is indeed $$\{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ldots \}$$.
  • Peter suggests that Garling's term "successor set" may correspond to what is often referred to as an "inductive set," to which Evgeny agrees.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the initial construction of $$Z^+$$, as participants have differing views on the properties of the set $$S$$ and the nature of successor sets. However, there is agreement on the definition of the intersection of the successor sets leading to $$\{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ldots \}$$.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions and assumptions regarding successor sets may vary, and the discussion highlights the complexity of constructing these sets within the framework provided by Garling.

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I am reading D. J. H. Garling: "A Course in Mathematical Analysis: Volume I Foundations and Elementary Real Analysis ... ...

I am currently focused on Garling's Section 1.7 The Foundation Axiom and the Axiom of Infinity ... ...

I need some help with Theorem 1.7.4 ... and in particular with the notion of a successor set $$Z^+$$ ... ... ... ... the relevant text from Garling is as follows:
View attachment 6153
In the above text we read the following:

" ... ... Suppose that $$S$$ is a successor set. Let

$$Z^+ = \cap \{ B \in P(S) : B \text{ is a successor set } \}$$ ... "
Note also that Garling defines a successor set as follows:

" ... ... A set $$A$$ is called a successor set if $$\emptyset \in A$$ and if $$a^+ \in A$$ whenever $$a \in A$$ ... ... "and

Garling defines $$a^+$$ as follows:

" ... ... If $$a$$ is a set, we define $$a^+$$ to be the set $$a \cup \{ a \}$$ ... ... "
Now my problem is that I do not understand the definition/construction of $$Z^+$$ ... ... in each example I construct I seem to get $$Z^+ = \emptyset$$ ... ... and this cannot be right ...
For example ...
Suppose that

$$S = \{ \emptyset , a , a \cup \{ a \} , \{ a , b \}, \{ a , b \} \cup \{ \{ a , b \} \} \}$$$$Z^+ = \cap B_i$$ where $$B_i \in P(S)$$ and each $$B_i$$ is a successor set ...... ... then we find ... ...$$B_1 = \{ \emptyset, a , a \cup \{ a \} \}$$

$$B_2 = \{ \emptyset, \{ a , b \} , \{ a , b \} \cup \{ \{ a , b \} \} \}$$

$$B_3 = S$$ ... so ... ...$$B_1, B_2, B_3$$ seem to me to be the only subsets of $$P(S)$$ that are successor sets and we find that ...$$\cup B_i = \emptyset $$BUT ... surely this cannot be right ...!Can someone clarify this issue and show me how Z^+ is meant to be constructed ...

Hope someone can help ...

Peter====================================================

In order to enable readers to get a better understanding of Garling's notation and approach I am providing the first two pages of Section 1.7 ... as follows:View attachment 6154
View attachment 6155
 
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Peter said:
Suppose that

$$S = \{ \emptyset , a , a \cup \{ a \} , \{ a , b \}, \{ a , b \} \cup \{ \{ a , b \} \} \}$$
This $S$ is not a successor set because $(a \cup \{ a \})^+\notin S$ (at least, not for al $a$).
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
This $S$ is not a successor set because $(a \cup \{ a \})^+\notin S$ (at least, not for al $a$).
Thanks Evgeny ... I'll now try to reformulate my example ...

I am assuming S should be as follows ... ...

$$S = \{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ , a, a^+, a^{++}, a^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ , \{ a , b \}, \{ a , b \}^+, \{ a , b \}^{++}, \{ a , b \}^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ \} $$Then Garling defines $$Z^+$$ as follows:$$Z^+ = \cap B_i$$ where $$B_i \in P(S)$$ and each $$B_i$$ is a successor set ...... ... then we find ... ...$$B_1 = \{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ \}$$$$B_2 = \{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ a, a^+, a^{++}, a^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ \}$$$$B_3 = \{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ , \{ a , b \}, \{ a , b \}^+, \{ a , b \}^{++}, \{ a , b \}^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ \} $$

and

$$B_4 = S$$ ... so ... ...$$B_1, B_2, B_3, B_4 $$ now seem to me to be the only subsets of $$P(S)$$ that are successor sets and we find that ...$$\cap B_i = \{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ ... \ ... \ ... \ \} $$

Is that correct?

PeterNOTE - just by the way, I think that what Garling is calling a "successor set" is often called an "inductive set" ... can you confirm that this is the case?
 
Last edited:
Peter said:
$$B_1, B_2, B_3, B_4 $$ now seem to me to be the only subsets of $$P(S)$$ that are successor sets
$P(S)$ contains infinitely many successor sets. All of them include $B_1$, but elements of the form $a^{+\dots}$ may start with, say, $a^{+++}$ and not with $a$. The intersection of all these sets is indeed $\{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ ...\}$.

Peter said:
I think that what Garling is calling a "successor set" is often called an "inductive set" ... can you confirm that this is the case?
Yes.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
$P(S)$ contains infinitely many successor sets. All of them include $B_1$, but elements of the form $a^{+\dots}$ may start with, say, $a^{+++}$ and not with $a$. The intersection of all these sets is indeed $\{ \emptyset , \emptyset^+, \emptyset^{++}, \emptyset^{+++}, \ ...\}$.

Yes.
Thanks so much Evgeny... most helpful indeed!

Peter
 
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