Banked curve angle w/no friction - teacher's work differs

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on calculating the banking angle for a roadway with a 50m radius to allow cars to navigate a curve at 12 m/s without friction. The initial calculation yielded an angle of 17.09 degrees based on the centripetal force derived from the normal force and gravity. However, a professor's solution indicated a different angle of 16.37 degrees, attributed to the use of tangent in the force equations. The confusion arises from the representation of axes and the interpretation of forces acting on the vehicle.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of centripetal acceleration and forces
  • Knowledge of trigonometric functions in physics
  • Familiarity with free-body diagrams
  • Basic principles of motion in circular paths
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of banking angles in circular motion
  • Learn about the role of friction in banking curves
  • Explore free-body diagram techniques for analyzing forces
  • Investigate the differences between normal force and centripetal force
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1MileCrash
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Homework Statement



At what angle should the roadway on a curve with a 50m radius be banked to allow cars to make the curve at 12 m/s even if friction is 0?

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



All of the centripetal acceleration comes from normal force from the road on the car.

I choose to represent the road as being along the y-axis and Fn as being along +x axis. Then gravity is directed at angle theta to the left of the -yaxis.

Normal force must equal the component of gravity along -xaxis, which is mgsin(theta),

Since the required centripetal force is mv^2/r, this is 2.88m, mgsin(theta) = 2.88m

gsin(theta) = 2.88

theta = 17.09

My professors work seems to be similar, but at the end she says that:
gtan(theta) = 2.88

theta = 16.37

why?
 
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Just to check I understand your axes correctly: so the instantaneous velocity of the car is in the z-direction? And the y-direction is like the direction a pedestrian would walk along to cross the road as quick as possible? And the x-direction is the direction of the normal force?

In this case, gravity will not be directed at angle theta from the y-axis. And the normal force should not equal the component of gravity along the x-axis. I think you should draw the diagram again. I would advise making one of the axis go opposite to the direction of gravity. (Although your method should work too, but I think it makes it a bit more complicated).
 
1MileCrash said:

The Attempt at a Solution



All of the centripetal acceleration comes from normal force from the road on the car.

I choose to represent the road as being along the y-axis and Fn as being along +x axis. Then gravity is directed at angle theta to the left of the -yaxis.

Normal force must equal the component of gravity along -xaxis, which is mgsin(theta),

Since the required centripetal force is mv^2/r, this is 2.88m, mgsin(theta) = 2.88m


You calculated N instead of the centripetal force, which is Nsin(phi). The angle gravity encloses with the negative x-axis is not the banking angle. It is phi in the figure.

ehild
 

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