Basic Group Theory: Proof <A,B>n<C>=<AuBnC>

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around a claim regarding group theory, specifically the relationship between the subgroup generated by two sets and their intersection with another set. Participants explore the validity of the statement n= in the context of groups and provide examples to challenge or support the claim.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that if g is in and g is in , then g can be generated by elements in (AuB)nC, suggesting g is in <(AuB)nC>.
  • Another participant challenges this assertion by providing an example involving the additive groups generated by {3} and {4}, arguing that both groups contain 12, yet their generating sets do not intersect.
  • A later reply reinforces the challenge by stating that the group generated by {3, 4} is not equal to the sum of the groups generated by {3} and {4}.
  • One participant questions whether equals AuB when A and B are subgroups of G.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the initial claim, with at least one participant providing a counterexample that suggests the claim may not hold true. The discussion remains unresolved as differing viewpoints are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific examples and properties of groups, indicating that the discussion may depend on the definitions and properties of the sets involved, as well as the nature of the groups being considered.

tgt
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In a group G, is it true that <A,B>n<C>=<AuBnC> where A,B and C are sets in G?

Where <D> denotes the smallest subgroup in G containing the set D.

Proof
If g is in <A,B> and g is in <C> then g is capable of being generated by elements in A or B and also elements in C. So g is generated by elements in (AuB)nC. So g is in <(AuB)nC>.

if g is in <(AuB)nC> then g is in <AuB> and g is in <C> so g is in <AuB>n<C>
 
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tgt said:
If g is in <A,B> and g is in <C> then g is capable of being generated by elements in A or B and also elements in C. So g is generated by elements in (AuB)nC. So g is in <(AuB)nC>.
I don't think that is true. For example, consider the additive groups generated by {3} and by {4} (i.e. 3Z and 4Z).
They both contain 12, yet the intersection of the generating sets is empty.
 
CompuChip said:
I don't think that is true. For example, consider the additive groups generated by {3} and by {4} (i.e. 3Z and 4Z).
They both contain 12, yet the intersection of the generating sets is empty.

nice one.
 
We can say that if A and B are subgroups of G then <A,B>=AuB, right?
 
Did you check with my example?
[tex]( \langle 3, 4 \rangle, + ) \neq (3\mathbb{Z} + 4\mathbb{Z}, +)[/tex]
(in fact, the LHS is a group while the RHS is not).
 
CompuChip said:
Did you check with my example?
[tex]( \langle 3, 4 \rangle, + ) \neq (3\mathbb{Z} + 4\mathbb{Z}, +)[/tex]
(in fact, the LHS is a group while the RHS is not).

I see.
 

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