Basic problem with supremum question.

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter tamintl
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Supremum
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem related to proving the supremum of a set defined by the expression 3n / (5n + 1) for natural numbers n. The focus is on the theoretical aspects of supremum and upper bounds, as well as the mathematical reasoning required to demonstrate that 3/5 is the least upper bound.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that 3/5 is an upper bound for the set A, as 3n / (5n + 1) ≤ 3n / 5n = 3/5.
  • Another participant suggests that to prove 3/5 is the least upper bound, one should show that for any ε > 0, there exists a natural number N such that 3N / (5N + 1) > 3/5 - ε.
  • A later reply reiterates the need to rearrange the inequality to demonstrate the existence of such an N, questioning the clarity of the provided solutions.
  • Another participant proposes solving the inequality 3N / (5N + 1) > β for β < 3/5 or equivalently for 3N / (5N + 1) > 3/5 - ε.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the approach to proving the supremum and the rearrangement of inequalities. There is no consensus on how to proceed with the proof, and multiple viewpoints on the methodology are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for specific values of N and ε, but do not provide detailed steps or assumptions necessary for the proof, leaving some mathematical steps unresolved.

tamintl
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Hey guys!

Revising for an exam and I've come across a pretty basic problem.

Question: Prove that the supremum of the set A : { 3n / (5n+1) :n€N} is 3/5

My answer: So 3n / (5n+1) ≤ 3n / 5n = 3/5 so 3/5 is an upper bound.

Now, We claim that 3/5 is the least upper bound. Take β < 3/5 so now I need a positive integer n > ...This is bit I don't know how to do... (how do I choose this part?)
I then know that you re-arrange n>... to see that the β we chose earlier is: β < 3n / (5n+1) which is impossible, hence Sup(A) = 3/5

I hope you understand what I mean..
Regards as always
Tam
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You should rearrange your inequality somehow to show that for any given ε > 0, you can find some natural number N such that 3N / (5N + 1) > 3/5 - ε. I haven't tried it out myself, but this should be the concept, unless I'm mistaken.
 
radou said:
You should rearrange your inequality somehow to show that for any given ε > 0, you can find some natural number N such that 3N / (5N + 1) > 3/5 - ε. I haven't tried it out myself, but this should be the concept, unless I'm mistaken.

Are you sure? The solutions I have are vague to say the least, but would you have any idea how I could do this?
 
Solve the inequality
\frac{3N}{5N+1}&gt; \beta
for \beta&lt; 3/5
or, equivalently,
\frac{3N}{5N+1}&gt; \frac{3}{5}- \epsilon
for N.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
913
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K