Basic skills that kids are lacking

[BillTre]

Wasn't there a big issue re some scientists wanting to experiment with designing reverse symmetry virus, bacteria, for which there would be no cure?

You are probably thinking about organisms that have reversed molecules (like D vs. L amino acids), not the organisms themselves, like situs inversus.

 

[Mark44]

That's assuming that one knows the relationship between North, South, East and West.

But if you're standing exactly at the North Pole, every direction is south...

 

[WWGD]

But if you're standing exactly at the North Pole, every direction is south...

Analogous for the South. A singular point, which will never rise; ).

 

[PeroK]

That's assuming that one knows the relationship between North, South, East and West.

Never Eat Shredded Wheat.

 

[kuruman]

I googled

Has there been an occurrence of a person born with two left hands?​

and I got

While no one is born with a distinct right arm that terminates in a left hand, a rare congenital condition known as Mirror Hand Syndrome (or ulnar dimelia) mimics this visual concept on a single limb.

• The Anatomy: Individuals with this condition have a duplicated ulna bone in their forearm instead of one ulna and one radius.
• The Hand: Because the radius bone is responsible for forming the thumb, these individuals lack a thumb. Instead, they are born with 7 to 10 fingers that look like perfectly mirrored reflections of the pinky, ring, and middle fingers.
• The Rarity: It is exceptionally rare, with fewer than 100 cases documented in medical history since it was first identified in 1852. Pediatric orthopedists typically use reconstructive surgery to convert one of the extra fingers into a functional, opposable thumb.

Fascinating stuff. I suppose this illustrates a misplaced "put a mirror image here" instruction in whatever code controls bilateral symmetry.

 

[BillTre]

The Hand: Because the radius bone is responsible for forming the thumb, these individuals lack a thumb. Instead, they are born with 7 to 10 fingers that look like perfectly mirrored reflections of the pinky, ring, and middle fingers.

Vertebrate limbs start as a blob of tissue.

Neighboring cellular signally centers tell the developing limb where the top vs. bottom (back of hand vs. palm) (this is from molecular signals from dorsal and ventral body ectoderm, thumb side vs. pinky side (signaled by the zone of posteriorizing activity). Normally, this would generate two crossed developmental axes.

The extent of growth of the limb (proximal (close to body) vs. distal (away from body) is controlled by the apical ectodermal ridge. If it is impaired limb limb stops growing and lack more distal structures.

If the posteriorizing activity is lost or transplanted to the other side fingers and thumbs can be lost or duplicated.
These manipulations are not that difficult experimentally.

 

[berkeman]

Question from the Mentors to the Advisor's Lounge folks: Should this thread be moved to GD? Is there a need to keep it private in the Advisor's Lounge? Thanks.

 

[symbolipoint]

Question from the Mentors to the Advisor's Lounge folks: Should this thread be moved to GD? Is there a need to keep it private in the Advisor's Lounge? Thanks.

A couple of possibilities arise. As you suggest, General Discussion (GD), or maybe one of the Teacher/Teaching forums. The reason I started the topic in the Advisors' Lounge was because the topic may go off-course, and ,... another stylistic reason.

 

[DaveE]

Question from the Mentors to the Advisor's Lounge folks: Should this thread be moved to GD? Is there a need to keep it private in the Advisor's Lounge? Thanks.

I'd move it. Although, as @symbolipoint said, it might, or has, drifted off topic.
The other good alternative is to close it and wait for someone to restate their interest in a new post, in a new place.
This sort of old geezer "get off my lawn" and "it was better back in my day" has many potential branches.

 

[mfb]

While increasingly rare, there are still situations where they still need to know how to write a check.

And there are situations where they need to know how to milk a cow. Neither one is common for the general population. If you want to teach everything, it's going to be a lot of teaching.

As long as they can get from the web which is the right hand, they will be OK. Just to make sure that they will be able to, I googled "what is the definition of right hand?" and I got,

The phrase "right hand" generally refers to the hand on the right side of the body.​

Not wishing to give up, I then googled "what is the definition of right side of the body?" and I got,

The right side of the body refers to the entire right half of a person's anatomy, determined by dividing the body down the exact vertical center (the midline). Crucially, this is always viewed from the perspective of the patient (the individual being examined), not the observer.​

I gave up.

Distinguishing left and right, or clockwise and counterclockwise, without any sort of reference needs advanced particle physics (parity violation). A book or a screen could have an arrow pointing to the right side (or CW/CCW), of course.

 

[gmax137]

CW/CCW isn't so simple, because you need to distinguish between looking at the face of the clock, or looking from the backside.

 

[PeroK]

CW/CCW isn't so simple, because you need to distinguish between looking at the face of the clock, or looking from the backside.

People know what side of the road to drive on and which way to go round a roundabout. And lots of other things. Just because something might be difficult to describe verbally, doesn't mean we don't have a clear mental picture of it.

 

[WWGD]

They are, actually some missing skills. I remember hearing of how during Covid, kids were taught to swim through videos alone. When put in actual pools, years after, they had to be saved from drowning. Kind of funny, actually.

 

[Averagesupernova]

....and which way to go round a roundabout.

Yep. No one needs to make sure when describing a roundabout that the direction is from the perspective of looking down onto it and not up as if being underground.

They are, actually some missing skills. I remember hearing of how during Covid, kids were taught to swim through videos alone. When put in actual pools, years after, they had to be saved from drowning. Kind of funny, actually.

I find it disturbing that anyone could possibly think teaching swimming through videos is 'good enough'.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Concerning clockwise vs counter clockwise:
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In a previous life I did a bit of phone tech support in conjunction with being a service tech. I would have customers ask about a certain trim pot that was normal to adjust in the field at the time of installation. Based on what they would tell me I'd say they needed to turn it clockwise or counter clockwise. I was shocked at how many would ask: "So is that to the left or to the right?" People being half stupid is nothing new. It was occurring 30 and 40 years ago as well.

 

[WWGD]

Yep. No one needs to make sure when describing a roundabout that the direction is from the perspective of looking down onto it and not up as if being underground.

I find it disturbing that anyone could possibly think teaching swimming through videos is 'good enough'.

So, in the UK , you choose either "I'll do the Roundabout" (Yes) , or "Highway Star" (Deep Purple"?

 

[PeroK]

In the UK we tend to say anticlockwise. Although, "widdershins" is another, old-fashioned term for it.

 

[PeterDonis]

Distinguishing left and right, or clockwise and counterclockwise, without any sort of reference needs advanced particle physics (parity violation).

Even that requires knowing which are particles and which are antiparticles--which is another arbitrary choice that just gets tied in with the others. For example, if you run a parity violation experiment with "electrons", how do you know whether they're electrons or positrons? In the absence of some independent way of telling left from right (or more precisely counterclockwise from clockwise, since such experiments typically look at bias in spin direction), you don't. And no, "look at the charge" doesn't help either, because that just ties in the question of which charge is negative and which is positive (a question which Ben Franklin famously answered the opposite way from our modern answer) to everything else--without some independent way...

 

[vela]

And there are situations where they need to know how to milk a cow. Neither one is common for the general population. If you want to teach everything, it's going to be a lot of teaching.

For the vast majority of people in the US, I'd say the need to write a check is much more common than the need to milk a cow. On the one hand, I've had to write about 25–30 checks over the past fourteen years. It's rare that I need to, but it's still way more than I expected to when I opened my most recent checking account. On the other hand, I've never had to milk a cow.

Could I have avoided writing checks in some cases? Sure, but this last time, it would have cost me a $200 fee for the convenience of using a credit card.

 

[gleem]

Young people are avoiding interacting with adults and even directly with their peers. We all have to communicate effectively to get ahead and transmit our ideas, so don't you think that lacking this skill is of greater consequence?

Regarding clockwise, point your right thumb at the clock, and twist your wrist as in turning a doorknob, and your fingers will curl in the clockwise direction.

 

[WWGD]

For the vast majority of people in the US, I'd say the need to write a check is much more common than the need to milk a cow. On the one hand, I've had to write about 25–30 checks over the past fourteen years. It's rare that I need to, but it's still way more than I expected to when I opened my most recent checking account. On the other hand, I've never had to milk a cow.

Could I have avoided writing checks in

Young people are avoiding interacting with adults and even directly with their peers. We all have to communicate effectively to get ahead and transmit our ideas, so don't you think that lacking this skill is of greater consequence?

Regarding clockwise, point your right thumb at the clock, and twist your wrist as in turning a doorknob, and your fingers will curl in the

Just about everything else is a few clicks, social media posts away.Edit: Maybe we need to address the opposite end, older people who don't know how to use the " Interweb".

 

[gmax137]

CW/CCW isn't so simple, because you need to distinguish between looking at the face of the clock, or looking from the backside.

People know what side of the road to drive on and which way to go round a roundabout. And lots of other things. Just because something might be difficult to describe verbally, doesn't mean we don't have a clear mental picture of it.

I have seen maintenance failures where the equipment vendor document said "clockwise," meaning "clockwise from above" whereas the tech doing the maintenance thought "clockwise from below." This was vertical shaft machinery removed for servicing (so the "from below" view is in the tech's face).

As to the roundabouts, they put one in in my town (US) and being a novelty at that time, the local newspaper gave a description of how they should be navigated, informing us to "go left when entering..." I guess they cut and pasted that from a UK paper.

 

[gleem]

: Maybe we need to address the opposite end, older people who don't know how to use the " Interweb".

Not based on my experience. Two of my older grandchildren should know better. No response from my emails, texts, or snail mail since 7 th grade when helping one with programming. They engage when we initiate a conversation, but we have to keep it going. They are good kid and we still love them. We have hope, though. My stepson was similar to them, and then one day, literally, he sat down with us and started a conversation. He became one of the most gregarious persons I know and turned out to be a top-notch salesman.

 

[BillTre]

Maybe we need to address the opposite end, older people who don't know how to use the " Interweb".

My older sister whom I am now taking care of.

 

[BillTre]

As to the roundabouts, they put one in in my town (US) and being a novelty at that time, the local newspaper gave a description of how they should be navigated, informing us to "go left when entering..." I guess they cut and pasted that from a UK paper.

Rant warning:

I grew up in and just outside of Washington DC. They have some great traffic circles (as they called them then) that worked really well because everyone was used to them. DC is set-up as a bunch of perpendicular roads with some angled roads on top if that grid. The circles were also very large and there were parks in the middle of them. The large circles dealt with the situation there very well.

We recently got a bunch of roundabouts here in the Eugene are. They are very small to the point of being almost useless. They even have a double roundabout in one place. People aren't used to them and there have been crashes. Arrows and signs however make it clear where to go, so not a handedness type issue in my mind. I think they are too small and were set-up for more of a traffic speed control reason.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I have seen maintenance failures where the equipment vendor document said "clockwise," meaning "clockwise from above" whereas the tech doing the maintenance thought "clockwise from below."

Understandable. That blame can be placed on whoever wrote up the procedure. Having written assembly instructions for production workers, I would say that is a fail.
-
Describing things that are never referenced from a back side is different. To me clockwise and counter clockwise is just as acceptable in roundabouts for instance as is left and right. No one looks at a roundabout from underground and no one looks at it from inside the circle.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I also once saw a snafu where there was a transistor that was substituted out for a different one. The pin out was different so where the leads came out on the new one meant that it needed to be rotated a third of a turn compared to what the legend on the board said. Yes, this was back in the dark ages prior to surface mount. The individual in manufacturing engineering (not me) took it to understand that the transistor was to be inserted normally and then given a third of a turn. The assembly procedure was rewritten to reflect this insert and twist operation. Needless to say, there were failures on the next production run. At least the clockwise or counter clockwise was correct. Board stuffers didn't hold the boards above their heads and insert the parts while looking from the bottom.

 

[PeroK]

Perhaps more people than I thought don't understand the concept of clockwise.

I just realised that athletes always run anticlockwise round a running track. Apparently this is because the human heart is on the left!

 

[Mark44]

I remember hearing of how during Covid, kids were taught to swim through videos alone.

I always wanted to learn how to read, but I've only ever seen it in books...

Could I have avoided writing checks in some cases? Sure, but this last time, it would have cost me a $200 fee for the convenience of using a credit card.

I write checks every month: water bill, garbage pickup, cable/internet, electricity, propane, car insurance, credit card bill. I resist having money deducted from my account automatically, primarily because if the credit card gets hacked, which happens more than I like, it's a PITA to have to go through all of those accounts and reset the credit card account number when you get a new card. Also, I resent having to pay an extra 3% or so if you pay by credit card. It used to be that paying by debit card was the same as paying by check, but alas, many vendors now charge an extra fee for using a debit card, so I often just pay cash. For some large purchases, like cars and motorcycles, many sellers will accept only cash or bank drafts.

Back on the original topic, a skill that is becoming increasingly rare, is the ability to drive a car with a manual transmission. I have a decal on one of my two cars that have this type of transmission. Said decal shows a 6-speed manual shift pattern, with the words, "This vehicle is equipped with a Millennial Anti-Theft Device."

 

[symbolipoint]

#59 of Mark44 a great post that deserves several different "reaction" responses: Like, Agree, Wow, Informative.