Basic thermodynamic chemistry, heat transfer

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem in thermodynamic chemistry concerning heat transfer between steam and solid benzene. Participants explore the calculations needed to determine the mass of steam required to raise the temperature of benzene, while considering assumptions about heat transfer and phase changes.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the heat transfer equations for the system, expressing uncertainty about the heat lost by the steam and the resulting negative mass value.
  • Another participant suggests that the wording of the problem may imply that the steam condenses at 100 degrees Celsius without cooling.
  • A participant questions whether the final temperature of the water should be considered in the calculations, indicating confusion about the initial and final temperatures.
  • There is a discussion about whether the equation should be set as Qgained = Qlost or if the negative sign in Qgained = -Qlost is appropriate.
  • One participant notes that mixing conventions in the equations can lead to nonsensical results, such as negative mass, which indicates an error in the calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the equations and the treatment of temperature changes, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential confusion regarding the assumptions made about the phase changes of steam and the specific heat capacities involved, as well as the implications of using different conventions in heat transfer calculations.

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Homework Statement



How many grams of steam at 100 deg. celsius would be required to raise the temperature of 35.8 g solid benzene from 5.5 deg celsius to 45.0 deg celsius?
Assume that heat is only transferred from the steam (not the liquid water) and that the steam/water and benzene are separated by a glass wall and do not mix.

Homework Equations


Boiling point of benzene 5.5 C
Δfus of benzen is 9.87 kJ/mol
Specific heat of benzene is 1.63 J/g.C and 4.18 for water
ΔHvap for steam at 100 C is 40.7 kJ/mol

im not sure about this part, since i can't find it in my book.

so the total heat of the system Qtotal =0= Qgained+Qlost
or Qgained = -Qlost

Qgained = molesbenzen ×ΔH+mbenzen×Cbenzen×(45-5.5)

Qlost = moleswater×ΔHvap + mwater×C×water×(45-100)

The Attempt at a Solution


So it seem like my equation above are wrong
because m comes out as a negative value, which made no sense.
I am pretty sure I got the heat gained correct.
I just uncertain about the heat lost of the steam.

Please give me some help.
Thanks for your time
 
Last edited:
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Wording is confusing. I guess you have to assume water vapor cooled down to 100 deg C and condensed, but the final temperature of water was 100 deg C.
 
it is the exact wording from the book, and this is just general chemistry, so I don't think there is any complexity in the problem.

so for the heat lost part, if the final temperature is 100 then the initial is 45?
and still, if it is (100-45) based on the above equation I cannot get m as a positive value?
 
Oops, sorry, there is no cooling of the vapor, only condensation.
 
So what should I do with this problem now?
Is my equation correct?
or should it be Qgained = Qlost instead?
 
Just leave the mcΔT part for water.
 
What about the negative sign in the equation Qgained = -Qlost
Should it be there?
even though we take out the mcΔT of water, with the negative sign, the answer still comes out to be negative =(
 
This sign thing can be confusing, as it can be done in many ways. What is important is to not mix conventions and stick to one. Sorry, no time to give more elaborate explanation now.

Good thing is usually when you mix conventions you get a nonsense result, which makes it easy to spot something is wrong. Negative mass is a sure sign something went wrong.
 

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