Being Competitive for Top US Graduate Schools

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Hi All!,
Hope you are doing well.

(Grad admissions related)
I recently talked to a Professor of mine about my course work in 4th year of undergrad (Physics).
My aim is to try my luck and apply to the 15 top programs in North America (Ivy's etc.). With this in mind, my prof strongly suggested that I compare my curriculum with Schools like MIT and Harvard and take whatever their Physics majors are required to take as the core part of their program in my fourth year. In these schools, students take one higher level course in Quantum mechanics as a part of their program compared to my program. I can take the same type of course at my university to match with those curricula but it is not a degree requirement at my school.

In addition to these, the area of Physics I have in mind is Biological Physics, which doesn't need advanced quantum mechanics.

What should I do in this situation? I don't like advanced quantum mechanics but yet my prof tells me to take it anyway even if my program of study (biophysics) would have nothing to do with it. Does this make sense?
Does one have to match their undergrad curriculum to the undergrad curriculum of the school they want to apply to?
Does anyone have any experience with schools like the Ivy schools in this regard?

I would appreciate your insight.

 

[Vanadium 50]

my prof strongly suggested that I compare my curriculum with Schools like MIT and Harvard and take whatever their Physics majors are required to take as the core part of their program in my fourth year

Sounds sensible.

I don't like advanced quantum mechanics

So you expect to be successful doing only what you like?

Your professor gave you good advice. Now you're asking random strangers on the internet for advice that you'd rather hear. I don't think this is a pretty good plan.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Sounds sensible.

So you expect to be successful doing only what you like?

Your professor gave you good advice. Now you're asking random strangers on the internet for advice that you'd rather hear. I don't think this is a pretty good plan.

don't get me wrong. I am not trying to be validated (that would be a waste of time). I only talked to this prof about admissions so far and planning to talk to other ones as well. But in the meantime, I thought it could be a good idea to just hear current/past grad students or professors' views on this forum.

As to your point for "So you expect to be successful doing only what you like?", I will do whatever to be successful but taking advanced quantum mechanics for biophysics programs seemed a little odd to me. The advanced quantum mechanics course isn't a core requirement of my program and I can take more useful courses such as nonlinear physics and stat mech in its place.

 

[berkeman]

My aim is to try my luck and apply to the 15 top programs in North America (Ivy's etc.).

In addition to these, the area of Physics I have in mind is Biological Physics, which doesn't need advanced quantum mechanics.

Do any of those 15 schools offer programs in Biological Physics? It seems like those should be the schools you focus on...

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Do any of those 15 schools offer programs in Biological Physics? It seems like those should be the schools you focus on...

Yea but I still don't know if this assumption about these schools is reliable.

 

[berkeman]

Yea but I still don't know if this assumption about these schools is reliable.

Sorry, I have no idea how this addresses what I posted. I'm pretty brain dead right now from long work hours, but I thought you were asking about how to do what your advisor suggested (take courses similar to your top school choices) versus taking courses that were more in line with your interests. I asked if any of those schools offered curricula that were in line with your interests. So I'm not able to parse your response to my question, sorry.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Yea but I still don't know if this assumption about these schools is reliable.

What assumption? You got good advice that you didn't like. Now you're saying it's unreliable. Sorry - that doesn't make it unreliable. Indeed, deciding on whether information is reliable or not based on how much you like it is not a common trait among good scientists.

I looked at the course syllabus. If you don't take it, when you take QM in grad school, the odds are quite good you'll be squashed like a bug,

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Sorry, I have no idea how this addresses what I posted. I'm pretty brain dead right now from long work hours, but I thought you were asking about how to do what your advisor suggested (take courses similar to your top school choices) versus taking courses that were more in line with your interests. I asked if any of those schools offered curricula that were in line with your interests. So I'm not able to parse your response to my question, sorry.

sorry about the confusion. The schools I have in mind offer a very similar curriculum with the only difference being an extra course in quantum mechanics.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

What assumption? You got good advice that you didn't like. Now you're saying it's unreliable. Sorry - that doesn't make it unreliable. Indeed, deciding on whether information is reliable or not based on how much you like it is not a common trait among good scientists.

I looked at the course syllabus. If you don't take it, when you take QM in grad school, the odds are quite good you'll be squashed like a bug,

I already have a decent background in quantum and won't be "squashed". The reason why I am not sure about my professor's advice is that this is the first time I am hearing such a thing and need to talk to more people in the field to have a better understanding of the situation. I won't base my decision on the advice from one person, it is better to ask multiple people for advice.
Also I don't know why you are so judgmental? Even if I "liked" my prof's advice, I would have been interested in knowing the opinion of more people. Quickly making assumption about people is also not a common trait among good scientists.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I already have a decent background in quantum and won't be "squashed".

Based on your having successfully finished a PhD, so you know first-hand what it takes?

Also I don't know why you are so judgmental?

Because you're ignoring good advice, instead choosing to ask the same question until you get the answer you want to hear. That is unlikely to work well. But it's clear that you won't be convinced by anything but that, so best of luck.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Based on your having successfully finished a PhD, so you know first-hand what it takes?Because you're ignoring good advice, instead choosing to ask the same question until you get the answer you want to hear. That is unlikely to work well. But it's clear that you won't be convinced by anything but that, so best of luck.

Again, I'm not looking to hear "what I like" and you are making that assumption again! That would be pointless. Seeking the advice of more people doesn't mean that you are ignoring the advice of others.

Based on your having successfully finished a PhD, so you know first-hand what it takes?

I already looked at the graduate curriculum at these schools and it seems that my background is already sufficient for the general quantum mechanics requirement.

 

[gwnorth]

The question here is that when comparing you to other candidates applying to the "15 top programs in North America" for Biophysics, if the other candidates have QMII on their transcripts and you don't, will you be disadvantaged? Remember you are talking about the most competitive programs for admission. I wouldn't skimp on your undergraduate preparation just because you don't think the course is 100% relevant for your specialization. If the other applicants will have taken it, take it.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

The question here is that when comparing you to other candidates applying to the "15 top programs in North America" for Biophysics, if the other candidates have QMII on their transcripts and you don't, will you be disadvantaged? Remember you are talking about the most competitive programs for admission. I wouldn't skimp on your undergraduate preparation just because you don't think the course is 100% relevant for your specialization. If the other applicants will have taken it, take it.

I see. Thanks for the advice!

 

[CrysPhys]

As to your point for "So you expect to be successful doing only what you like?", I will do whatever to be successful but taking advanced quantum mechanics for biophysics programs seemed a little odd to me. The advanced quantum mechanics course isn't a core requirement of my program and I can take more useful courses such as nonlinear physics and stat mech in its place.

Remember, even if you go through with your present aspirations, you will be a physicist first, and a biophysicist second. Advanced quantum mechanics should be a fundamental tool in every physicist's kitbag. You may think you won't need it ... but you never know. Being able to pivot quickly is a key advantage to a comprehensive physics program.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I would not in good conscience recommend less than two full semesters of quantum mechanics for ANY top 100 Physics PhD program in the US. The second semester is not really "Advanced Quantum Mechanics", it's simply the second semester of what is designed as a two semester sequence. You need all that material to be prepared for graduate school.

The quantum mechanics courses you see in Grad School are advanced enough that if you don't have both semesters in undergrad, you will not be prepared for them.

 

[mpresic3]

It seems to me that your professor's advice makes sense. You state that the schools you are looking into require (or at least strongly recommend) one more course than is "required" at your school. It is likely that when you apply to these schools, you will not be able to "explain" why you do not have the courses that many other candidates do. Even if they gave you the opportunity, saying it was not required in your program suggests you are only trying to fill the requirements as an undergraduate, not stretch your skills to reach graduate study.

The bad news is also is that the upper level QM is usually a lot harder than the earlier semester QM, and it may lower your GPA. I understand this fear, and it is a valid one. Nevertheless, (you know your professor better than we do), but it is likely that he or she is knowlegeable and well-meaninged.

In addition, you mentioned courses you could take in it's place, Stat Mech, or Nonlinear Physics. Both of these are used in Biophysics, but I note you did not specifically mention a biophysics course. On the balance, a subsequent QM course, is a hard pill to swallow, but it is likely best.

 

[radium]

I think it is quite important to have two semesters of QM as an undergrad if you are planning to do a PhD in physics.
Many students entering PhD programs at top departments have already completed some graduate coursework during undergrad, so that may give you an idea of the high level of preparation expected.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Remember, even if you go through with your present aspirations, you will be a physicist first, and a biophysicist second. Advanced quantum mechanics should be a fundamental tool in every physicist's kitbag. You may think you won't need it ... but you never know. Being able to pivot quickly is a key advantage to a comprehensive physics program.

Thank you for the advice!

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

I would not in good conscience recommend less than two full semesters of quantum mechanics for ANY top 100 Physics PhD program in the US. The second semester is not really "Advanced Quantum Mechanics", it's simply the second semester of what is designed as a two semester sequence. You need all that material to be prepared for graduate school.

The quantum mechanics courses you see in Grad School are advanced enough that if you don't have both semesters in undergrad, you will not be prepared for them.

Thanks for the advice. I have already done two semesters of quantum mechanics, but I guess taking a third would ensure I'm more prepared.

 

[member 428835]

I know I'm digressing here OP, but are you aware professors hand-select their PhD students? There's a weed-out process based on GPA and GRE scores, but after that a big blob of applications are placed on their desk, and they have to sift through them and see who they're interested in. My adviser liked course-work, and lot's of it. Other's really like research, like maybe second author on a paper or something (rare for undergrads, but I know many undergrads at my school get on papers as a late author).

TLDR: you won't know which professor likes what, so take the additional quantum course UNLESS YOU WON'T DO WELL. Do not wreck your GPA; it's never worth it (then in grad school GPA goes out the window, publish or perish ). Good luck!