Bell's theorem proof. Does it really proofs anything?

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The discussion centers on the interpretation of Bell's theorem and its implications regarding quantum entanglement and hidden variables. Participants argue whether Bell's theorem conclusively demonstrates that measurement of one photon affects another, with skepticism about the validity of the experiments supporting this claim. Some suggest that the results could be explained by hidden variables, while others emphasize that no dataset can align with experimental outcomes if hidden variables are assumed to exist independently of measurement settings. The conversation highlights the complexity of quantum mechanics and the need for rigorous understanding of experimental setups and results. Ultimately, the debate reflects ongoing confusion and differing interpretations surrounding the implications of Bell's theorem in quantum physics.
  • #91
DrChinese said:
You can put pepperoni on mine. And crank up some Steely Dan.

HAHAHA :smile:

YES! Pepperoni + Steely Dan = makes my life worth living!

(sorry for the "sentence violation", going to jail now... :redface:)
 
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  • #92
0xDEAD BEEF said:
What are key points how local-realism explains these experiments?
Photon experiments that test Bell (or CHSH) inequalities relay on so called fair sampling assumption.
The thing is that you don't detect all photons that leave beam splitter but only portion. Typically you have around 10% coincidence rate i.e. you discard 9/10 of detections because you don't have matching detection at the other side.
Idea of fair sampling assumption is that if you would detect them it would not change observed correlations.
So if you assume that detected sample of photons is biased then you have to conclude that photon tests don't prove non-locality.
And I would like to add that this is the only way out of the paradox consistent with local realism.

Btw there was another idea (so called "locality loophole") but it was disproved by experiment with fast switching polarizers.

And you can try to look here as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loopholes_in_Bell_test_experiments"

0xDEAD BEEF said:
No! My configuration was different. It was - Bob 0, Alisa 90. Photons flying in sometimes have angle 45, so they sometimes must hit ++, --, +-, -+, BUT, we only get +- and -+.
I guess you misunderstood me. My point was that photons flying in sometimes have 45° angle and sometimes different angle.
 
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  • #93
Da Capo: Mamma Mia :bugeye:
 
  • #94
0xDEAD BEEF said:
1. It was - Bob 0, Alisa 90. Photons flying in sometimes have angle 45, so they sometimes must hit ++, --, +-, -+, BUT, we only get +- and -+.

2. What are key points how local-realism explains these experiments?

1. If you know that the photons coming in are polarized at 45 degrees, then they cannot be polarization entangled. And you will get: ++, --, +-, -+.

2. zonde has given a pretty good answer already. This is a very complex question and the answers tend to arouse controversy. But the short answer is that NO local realistic explanation also matches QM. In the view of zonde, local realism + fair sampling can match QM experimentally. This is far from certain (but *may* be possible). What is certain is that such local realism means that a complete sample will not agree with QM. Which follows Bell's Theorem, which essentially states:

No physical theory of local Hidden Variables can ever reproduce all of the predictions of Quantum Mechanics.
 

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