A Beta/gamma decay probabilities

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The discussion centers on the beta decay of 212Pb and its probabilities related to the second excited state of 212Bi. The probability of decay leading to this state is identified as 81.5%. However, the probability of emitting a 238.6 keV gamma ray during this decay is calculated to be approximately 35.5%, highlighting the dependence of these events. Participants express confusion about the differences between these probabilities and seek clarification on the emission processes involved. The conversation concludes with a participant gaining clarity on the theoretical aspects of the decay processes.
CloudNine
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Hi all,

I have received this following question which I can't really figure out all the way to the end:

Consider the beta decay of 212Pb:
צילום מסך 2021-10-31 ב-23.15.52.png

* What is the probability that the decay leads to the second excited state of 212Bi at 238.6 keV?
This is straight forward - from nndc NuDat, it seems that the answer is simply 81.5%:

*What is the probability that the beta decay is accompanied by the emission of a 238.6 keV gamma ray? Explain (qualitatively) the difference between this value and your answer to (a).
Here, the answer is, if I'm not mistaken (but here's my difficulty) is like so:
Lets define:
A - beta decay to the second excited state of Bi-212
B - gamma decay with 238.6 KeV
Since decaying with 238.6 KeV can only happen from the 2nd excited state of Bi-212, the events are dependent. Thus:
P(B∩A)=P(B|A)P(A)=0.436*0.815=0.35534
I don't understand "what is the difference" between this value and the answer to (a). These are different questions, depicting different situations..

*Google the binding energies of the bismuth K, L, M and N shells. Use this information and the Nudat database to identify the main emissions which solve the mystery of (b).
Totally lost it! What mystery? :( Is this the correct table to use? What does it give?

צילום מסך 2021-10-31 ב-23.25.11.png
 

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I think the problem asks indirectly how the other 56% of the nuclei go to the ground state if they don't emit a gamma photon.
 
mfb said:
I think the problem asks indirectly how the other 56% of the nuclei go to the ground state if they don't emit a gamma photon.
Yes I think you are right. I've dived into the theoretical explanations again and things make more sense now, and so I'm able to compile a coherent answer (hopefully).
Thanks!
 
Theoretical physicist C.N. Yang died at the age of 103 years on October 18, 2025. He is the Yang in Yang-Mills theory, which he and his collaborators devised in 1953, which is a generic quantum field theory that is used by scientists to study amplitudes (i.e. vector probabilities) that are foundational in all Standard Model processes and most quantum gravity theories. He also won a Nobel prize in 1957 for his work on CP violation. (I didn't see the post in General Discussions at PF on his...

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