Big-Bang Theory Modification Real or Not

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formation of galaxies and black holes in the context of the Big Bang theory. Participants explore whether galaxies formed preformed or through coalescence, and the role of black holes in this process. The conversation touches on current research and theories related to cosmic structure formation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that galaxies may not have come out preformed, proposing that they coalesced from stellar dust and gas, similar to planets.
  • Another participant notes that the formation of galaxies and planets is an active area of study, indicating that they likely formed gradually through gravitational and electromagnetic interactions.
  • Some theories propose the existence of primordial black holes formed early in the universe, but these theories are described as uncertain.
  • It is mentioned that the accretion of gas and dust onto black holes occurs in a disk structure, likened to a whirlpool, but black holes do not "suck" matter in the same way as commonly perceived.
  • One participant references the 'primordial black hole' conjecture by Stephen Hawking, stating it has been largely ruled out by measurements of the cosmic gamma ray background, although this only applies to low-mass black holes.
  • Another participant acknowledges the correction regarding Hawking's work and discusses the implications of the lack of mini primordial black holes on accretion models.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the formation of galaxies and the role of primordial black holes, indicating that multiple competing theories and uncertainties remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the specific mechanisms of galaxy formation and the implications of dark matter in the early universe. The discussion reflects a range of hypotheses and corrections without reaching a consensus.

Wings of Pegasus
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Big-Bang Theory- New Idea on it

I have been pondering something for a while now, and it is how the "stuff" in the universe came out. Mostly, just whether or not galaxies came out preformed or, like planets, coalesced into their current selves. If researchers believe that galaxies came out preformed (which i suspect they dont), then this might make sense.

Nothing ever seems to come out preformed in nature, including planets, animals (evolution), stars, etc.
What I'm going for is that, black holes and all the stellar dust and gas was thrown out indiscrimately into space, and the black holes began to "suck up" the gas and dust, creating a whirlwind effect with the gas, much like a drain in a sink does when filled with water.

Am I way off the mark?:frown:
 
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Wings of Pegasus said:
I have been pondering something for a while now, and it is how the "stuff" in the universe came out. Mostly, just whether or not galaxies came out preformed or, like planets, coalesced into their current selves. If researchers believe that galaxies came out preformed (which i suspect they dont), then this might make sense.

Actually, the formation of galaxies and planets are two of the most active areas of study in astronomy right now. We're pretty sure they didn't just "come out" with the universe... we think they gradually formed by a combination of gravitational and electromagnetic interactions.


What I'm going for is that, black holes and all the stellar dust and gas was thrown out indiscrimately into space, and the black holes began to "suck up" the gas and dust, creating a whirlwind effect with the gas, much like a drain in a sink does when filled with water.

There are some theories that say there should have been black holes formed very early in the history of the universe, but these theories are quite uncertain at this point. The accretion of gas and dust onto a black hole does, we believe, occur in a disk structure, sort of like the whirlpool you describe. However, black holes don't "suck" you towards them anymore than the Earth does. They attract by the same mechanism -- gravity. That means one can just as easily be in orbit around a black hole as they can be around our sun.
 
In fact the 'primordial black hole' conjecture by Stephen Hawking has been pretty much ruled out by measurements of the cosmic gamma ray background. One of the most puzzling questions in modern cosmology is how structures like galaxies formed so rapidly after the big bang. It is extraordinarily difficult to explain this without a boatload of dark matter in the early universe - which also helps explain why cosmologists are so fond of the LCDM model.
 
Chronos said:
In fact the 'primordial black hole' conjecture by Stephen Hawking has been pretty much ruled out by measurements of the cosmic gamma ray background.

Those particular measurements only rule out an abundant population of very low-mass black holes (the strongest Hawking radiators).
 
Correction noted and agreed. Albeit, I don't recall Hawking having modeled super massive black hole formation in the early universe. No big deal. The lack of mini PBH's mostly creates headaches for accretion models.
 
Chronos said:
Correction noted and agreed. Albeit, I don't recall Hawking having modeled super massive black hole formation in the early universe.

I'm not familiar with Hawking's work specifically, but primordial black hole formation can occur over a wide range of masses. The gamma-ray background only rules out those around 1015 grams.
 
Ahh, I see. Thanks for the timely response and good explanation.
 

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