Bilinear forms and wedge products

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of antisymmetric bilinear forms (ABFs) and their relationship to wedge products of covectors, particularly in the context of R^4 and lower dimensions. Participants explore examples, clarify definitions, and address specific exercises from a text on mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Kevin presents a challenge in finding an ABF on R^4 that cannot be expressed as a wedge product of two covectors, referencing simpler cases in R^2 and R^3.
  • He describes his approach to associating ABFs with wedge products and notes inconsistencies in his results when equating coefficients.
  • Math Wonk suggests a resource that discusses the topic and hints at the existence of a 2-form that is not a wedge of two covectors.
  • Kevin acknowledges a misunderstanding in his method and questions whether 2-forms are equivalent to antisymmetric bilinear forms.
  • A later reply confirms that 2-forms and antisymmetric bilinear forms are indeed equivalent, while also mentioning that the representation of a 2-form as a wedge product may require multiple pairs in higher dimensions.
  • Another participant notes that the term "n-form" can have different meanings depending on the author, indicating a potential source of confusion in definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express some agreement on the equivalence of 2-forms and antisymmetric bilinear forms, but there remains uncertainty regarding the representation of 2-forms as wedge products in higher dimensions. The discussion includes differing interpretations of terminology.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the proof of representing 2-forms as wedge products in higher dimensions, as well as potential ambiguities in the definitions of forms based on different authors.

homology
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Hey folks,

I'm reading "Symmetry in Mechanics" by S. Singer and I'm stuck on an exercise. It asks to find an antisymmetric bilinear form on R^4 that cannot be written as a wedge product of two covectors.

Here are my thoughts thus far: on R^2 its trivial to show that every antisymmetric bilinear form (ABF) is the product of two covectors. I just let F be an ABF and put in two vectors, v & w and expanded them in terms of a basis e_i. I get something like:

F(e_1,e_2)(v_1w_2-v_2w_1) which easily maps into F(e_1,e_2)dx\wedge dy and you can split up the wedge anyway you'd like to, to make two covectors whose wedge gives the same result as F.

Now on R^3 are a little more complicated and I have a question about that as well. If I look at F(v,w) where v,w\in R^3 and expand it in a basis e_i I get what you'd expect, a cross product looking expression. Now if I also take the wedge product of two 1-forms on R^3, say \alpha,\beta where \alpha = \alpha_idx^i and \beta=\beta_idx^i I get a 2-form with the coefficients you'd expect (they look like the components from a cross product).

Now the expansion of the ABF, F, using the basis e_igives me that cross product looking thing, but with some additional constants which I denote as:

F(e_i,e_j)=F_{ij}. If I wish to take that ABF and associate it to a product of covectors I thought I could just equate coeffcients and solve. If I do that I get the following system:

\alpha_1\beta_2-\alpha_2\beta_1=F_{12}
\alpha_2\beta_3-\alpha_3\beta_2=F_{23}
\alpha_1\beta_3-\alpha_3\beta_1=F_{13}
If i suppose that I pick my \alpha_k first I get a matrix that's inconsistent. But of course I'm doing something stupid here because you're supposed to be able to associate ABF with wedge products of covectors in R^3.

So as you can see, I'm lost. I'd appreciate some direction.

Many thanks,

Kevin
 
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this is discussed in the l;ittle book once read communaly here by david bachman, possibly still available free or at least the running commentray here on all the exercieses. ask tom mattson.
 
Thanks Math Wonk. I've read it and see now an example of a 2-form which is not a wedge of two covectors and I also see how I had gone awry in my method of associating 2-forms to wedges.

One last point, it seems as though 2-forms are "identical" to antisymmetric bilinear forms?

Thanks for your help,

Kevin
 
homology said:
Thanks Math Wonk. I've read it and see now an example of a 2-form which is not a wedge of two covectors and I also see how I had gone awry in my method of associating 2-forms to wedges.

One last point, it seems as though 2-forms are "identical" to antisymmetric bilinear forms?

Thanks for your help,

Kevin

Yes, 2-forms means the same as antisymmetric bilinear forms; 3-forms means antisymmetric trilinear forms, etc.

As for the question of representing a 2-form as a wedge product of two 1-forms. As far as I understand, one can make a general statement that it is sufficient to write n/2 wedge products to represent a 2-form in n-dimensional space. So in four dimensions any 2-form can be written as a\wedge b+c\wedge d. But I can't remember how this is proved. I seem to remember that this is called "Darboux theory" but I'm not sure any more.
 
the phrase "n-form" has more than one meaning depending on the author.

to me it means a field of antisymmetric multilinear functions, but as defined above and in bachman, the usage is for just one of them.
 

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