Black Holes: Is Super Dense Matter a Better Explanation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of black holes and whether the concept of super dense matter provides a better explanation than traditional models. Participants explore theoretical implications, analogies, and the interpretation of black holes in popular science media.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that super dense matter could explain the properties of black holes, questioning the traditional depiction of black holes as "funnels" that lead to other universes.
  • Others assert that black holes are indeed super-dense matter, emphasizing that they are not "holes" but rather collapsed matter that retains its mass and gravitational influence.
  • A participant highlights that adding mass to a black hole increases its gravitational field, which they argue supports the idea that the matter is still present in a different form.
  • There is a humorous discussion about the terminology used to describe black holes, with suggestions to rename them to "Black Balls" to avoid confusion in educational contexts.
  • One participant mentions Einstein's theory of general relativity and the concept of singularities, noting that quantum effects may challenge current understandings at extremely small scales.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of black holes and the adequacy of super dense matter as an explanation. There is no consensus on the terminology or the implications of black holes as described in popular science.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on interpretations of general relativity and quantum mechanics, with unresolved questions about the nature of singularities and the behavior of matter at extreme densities.

bikeaddict
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You know how all those science channel specials on black holes, they depict a black hole as a funnel in space that sucks everything into another universe.

Wouldn't super dense matter do the same thing? not let anything escape, even light? Wouldnt that be a better explanation?
 
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A black hole is super-dense matter.
 
bikeaddict said:
You know how all those science channel specials on black holes, they depict a black hole as a funnel in space that sucks everything into another universe.
"Real" science shows - ones that aren't sensationalizing - will not make unfounded speculations about matter getting sucked into other universes.

Black holes are not "holes" at all, they are simply matter that has collapsed in on itself. The matter is still there, just in a form we don't understand.

Note that if you add mass to a black hole, its gravitational field grows - direct evidence that the matter is still there.
 
They should be renamed Black Balls then, right? Let's start a trend.


berkeman said:
A black hole is super-dense matter.
 
bikeaddict said:
They should be renamed Black Balls then, right?

I can only imagine trying to teach a class full of kids about "massive black balls" "balls so massive, not even light can escape!" ... I think museum workers and science teachers have enough trouble with "Homo Erectus" as it is.

... and I bet they'd be glad the universe isn't blue :smile:

the picture of the funnel is just an analogy of the gravity. To demonstrate how strong it gets as it gets nearer and nearer whatever the heck is in the center. so it's not just out of the blue.
 
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moe darklight said:
I can only imagine trying to teach a class full of kids about "massive black balls" "balls so massive, not even light can escape!" ... I think museum workers and science teachers have enough trouble with "Homo Erectus" as it is.


:smile: That is TOO FUNNY!
 
bikeaddict said:
They should be renamed Black Balls then, right? Let's start a trend.
Incidentally, they have just been renamed as http://www.dailyredundancy.com/archives/1018.html .

(via http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2007/06/22/black-holes-even-the-name-sucks/)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well its nice to know I'm on the right track. Total layman here.
 
bikeaddict said:
You know how all those science channel specials on black holes, they depict a black hole as a funnel in space that sucks everything into another universe.

Wouldn't super dense matter do the same thing? not let anything escape, even light? Wouldnt that be a better explanation?
According to Einstein's theory of general relativity, once the matter has collapsed to a sufficiently small size, it will inevitably collapse further into a single point with zero size and infinite density--a "singularity". Physicists think that at sufficiently small scales quantum effects may cause general relativity's predictions to become significantly incorrect, but the scale where it's expected to break down is extremely tiny, so even if the matter does not collapse to a mathematical point it is probably compressed down to something on the scale of the Planck density, which for a black hole formed from a star would be much smaller than a single proton.
 

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