When Will the Boeing 787 Finally Take Flight?

  • Context: Boeing 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Ivan Seeking
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the maiden flight of the Boeing 787, which has been delayed for two years. Participants express personal and professional stakes in the event, reflecting on its significance for Boeing and the airline industry. The conversation includes technical observations, predictions about future performance, and comparisons with other aircraft, particularly the Airbus A380.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express excitement about the 787's maiden flight, noting its beauty and the impact on their income.
  • Concerns are raised about potential problems during the flight, with some participants feeling nervous about the outcome.
  • Technical observations are made regarding the wing design and structural integrity, with references to past incidents involving wingtip vortices.
  • Predictions about future issues with composite materials and delamination are discussed, with some participants suggesting a lucrative market for carbon-fiber repairs.
  • There are questions about the 787's performance compared to other aircraft, particularly regarding fuel efficiency and noise levels.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the 787's innovations, comparing it unfavorably to the Airbus A380 and questioning its overall significance in the market.
  • Discussions include the number of orders for the 787 and A380, highlighting differences in market targeting and design philosophy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of excitement and skepticism regarding the 787. While there is enthusiasm about its maiden flight and its potential impact on the industry, there are also concerns about its technical performance and comparisons with competitors like the A380. No consensus is reached on the aircraft's advantages or future challenges.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference historical challenges faced by Boeing and the implications of composite materials in aircraft design. There are also discussions about the specific market segments targeted by the 787 and A380, indicating a complexity in direct comparisons.

Ivan Seeking
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Finally! It is two years late.

It is supposed to fly from Everett to Seattle right about now. This has a direct impact on my income so this is great news for me personally as well as everyone at Boeing.
 
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CNN is providing live coverage. It is taxiing right now.

Funny [I hope] but I am actually nervous. Of course it would be terrible if there were signficant problems.
 
There she gooooooes! woohoooo!
 
Wow, it's big! And it is beautiful. Hope everything goes well on its maiden flight.
 
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Ivan Seeking said:
Finally! It is two years late.

It is supposed to fly from Everett to Seattle right about now. This has a direct impact on my income so this is great news for me personally as well as everyone at Boeing.

Direct impact for me as well. The 787 will keep us in projects for years to come.
 
There is so much that can go wrong, and if nothing goes wrong, then somethings wrong...

I've got knots in my stomach. I can only imagine how the guys at the runway feel.

The test pilots are most relaxed people in the program. But they are crazy.
 
These airport delays are getting out of hand. This flight was two years late.
 
jimmysnyder said:
These airport delays are getting out of hand. This flight was two years late.

In this case better late than never. :)
 
drankin said:
Direct impact for me as well. The 787 will keep us in projects for years to come.

You, me, an army of suppliers and vendors, as well as the Boeing employees. In the otherwise bleak world of manufacturing, this a very good day.
 
  • #10
jimmysnyder said:
These airport delays are getting out of hand. This flight was two years late.

Slow too. Five hours to get to an airport forty miles away.
 
  • #11
This video from 2007 briefly discusses the financial and technical challenges of the 787. Today is considered to be historic for Boeing and the airline industry generally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7PxH0-eT_0

Takeoff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fucq5BoEfEI
 
  • #12
Yeah!

Observation: The chase plane wasn't exactly in the safest location, wingtip vortex-wise! Would have been tragic to get off the ground only to loose a wingtip...
 
  • #13
mugaliens said:
Yeah!

Observation: The chase plane wasn't exactly in the safest location, wingtip vortex-wise! Would have been tragic to get off the ground only to loose a wingtip...

If it did I'd say Boeing got the curse of North American Aviation when they bought it up. Airship 2 of the XB-70 project was lost to a wingtip vortex accident.

I wonder if it is the angles of the cameras but the wings of the 787 look like they are turned up fairly high
 
  • #14
Man, those wings sure were bending in that video!
 
  • #15
Cyrus said:
Man, those wings sure were bending in that video!

I noticed that too... must be a very comfy ride on the inside :smile:

It's quite amazing to see how far we've come in my opinion...
 
  • #16
Cyrus said:
Man, those wings sure were bending in that video!

In structural testing, they pulled those wings up and together until they snapped, prematurely. That was one of the major delays. They had to do a massive modification. This was only a few months ago.
 
  • #17
My prediction is that the 787s are going to have a lottttt of problems with delamination of all that composite materials. Private jets are having those problems now. Get into the carbon-fiber repair business for airlines and you'll be a rich man.
 
  • #18
In the first video it is stated something like "plastic means no fatigue" - how true is it? I mean - I can easily believe material properties will change at different speed, but "no fatigue" sounds like an exaggeration.
 
  • #19
Cyrus said:
My prediction is that the 787s are going to have a lottttt of problems with delamination of all that composite materials. Private jets are having those problems now. Get into the carbon-fiber repair business for airlines and you'll be a rich man.

I'm sure they have test data for every composite component.

Boeing puts every component through several life cycles in testing. Their standards are above the private jet manufacturers in my experience.

I'm more concerned about it's ability to withstand lighting strikes. The composite cannot conduct around the airframe like the typical aluminum airframe. According to our senior electrical engineer the wire mesh "bus" system is the most sophisticated part of the aircraft. I'm curious as to how THAT was tested.
 
  • #20
drankin said:
I'm sure they have test data for every composite component.

Boeing puts every component through several life cycles in testing. Their standards are above the private jet manufacturers in my experience.

I'm more concerned about it's ability to withstand lighting strikes. The composite cannot conduct around the airframe like the typical aluminum airframe. According to our senior electrical engineer the wire mesh "bus" system is the most sophisticated part of the aircraft. I'm curious as to how THAT was tested.

I have not been following this airplane too closely, but apart from being composite, why is this thing special? How does its performance look like compared to a similar airplane?

My guess is that its only 5-10% more efficient...<YAWN>. Someone build that damn blended wing body airliner already! They all look like the same ole B-707 from 1960!

bn707.jpg


Johnson, they want a new airplane! "Ok boss, well take off two of the engines and rebrand it!"

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787/images/K63965-03_lg.jpg

In 50 years, this is all we can do?...errr. The older one had stiffer wings. The 707 is a much prettier airplane IMO. Hell, it was the airplane that defined the "jet age."
 
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  • #21
Cyrus said:
I have not been following this airplane too closely, but apart from being composite, why is this thing special? How does its performance look like compared to a similar airplane?

My guess is that its only 5-10% more efficient...<YAWN>. Someone build that damn blended wing body airliner already! They all look like the same ole B-707 from 1960!

It's like Windows7, it's new, looks newer, higher "tech", has bigger... windows. If you don't have it your competitors will. Other than that, it's just more expensive and keeps the money moving in the industry.

Oh, and it's "green"er.
 
  • #22
drankin said:
Oh, and it's "green"er.

They changed its color?
 
  • #23
On pictures it looks blue.
 
  • #24
So what really are the advantages of the 787?
 
  • #25
According to Boeing it will use up to 20% fuel less plus it will be much quieter than other planes.
 
  • #26
I've flown a few times now in the new A380's and they are a dream! So quiet and smooth compared to anything else I've flown it. I'm very far from an expert in the aviation field, but Airbus seem to have gotten such a first mover advantage from the A380; the Dreamliner will have to be pretty special to out-do it.
 
  • #27
Wallace said:
I've flown a few times now in the new A380's and they are a dream! So quiet and smooth compared to anything else I've flown it. I'm very far from an expert in the aviation field, but Airbus seem to have gotten such a first mover advantage from the A380; the Dreamliner will have to be pretty special to out-do it.

I'm pretty sure it already has... I remember seeing something like 900 Boeings were already ordered. The most for any aircraft.
 
  • #28
Do you know any figures about how many A380's have been bought/ordered by comparison?
 
  • #29
Wallace said:
Do you know any figures about how many A380's have been bought/ordered by comparison?

The figure was actually 840 ordered for Boeing. A380 in comparison to date has 202.

EDIT: Reason that it is lower than what I said before I suppose is due to the delays, it was at 910.
 
  • #30
Thay are not easily comparable, as they are targeted at different markets. Or perhaps at different philosophies of air transport.
 

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