Bone conduction -- can the sound be heard in the inner ear?

[Sibilo]

good morning gentlemen, while wandering around the internet I came across bone conduction. most devices use a piezoelectric near the ear. Long story short, is it possible to place the piezo on your shoulder or hand instead to hear the sound? the distance is better, can the sound be heard in the inner ear?

 

[berkeman]

good morning gentlemen

and Ladies...

while wandering around the internet I came across bone conduction. most devices use a piezoelectric near the ear. Long story short, is it possible to place the piezo on your shoulder or hand instead to hear the sound? the distance is better, can the sound be heard in the inner ear?

Could you give some links to sources of information on this, to save us searching and trying to figure out what test you are referring to? Thanks.

 

[Sibilo]

and Ladies... Could you give some links to sources of information on this, to save us searching and trying to figure out what test you are referring to? Thanks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_conduction
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundBite_Hearing_System
the usual bone conduction systems use a piezoelectric near the ear or even a bracelet to put on the wrist and then always bring it close to the ear with a finger. But I want to know if it was possible to attach a piezoelectric device to the hand or shoulder and feel the sound via bone conduction
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F1T3GDY/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[hutchphd]

I once was tasked with developing a device to "listen" for and locate turbulent flow from occluded cardiac arteries using the transverse acoustic waves ("jello waves"generated). It was interesting but not successful.
Sound does not transmit that well through the body because it is made of many distinct structures with boundaries. Bones, by their nature and function, are good conductors of sound and usually solidly connected to each other and hence to the cochlea which does the detection and and spectral analysis of the sound
The purpose of the outer and middle (tympanic membrane- malleus- incus- stapes) ear is to amplify and provide a "sound impedance" match into the cochlear fluid. That is what the bone conduction device replaces.

 

[Sibilo]

I once was tasked with developing a device to "listen" for and locate turbulent flow from occluded cardiac arteries using the transverse acoustic waves ("jello waves"generated). It was interesting but not successful.
Sound does not transmit that well through the body because it is made of many distinct structures with boundaries. Bones, by their nature and function, are good conductors of sound and usually solidly connected to each other and hence to the cochlea which does the detection and and spectral analysis of the sound
The purpose of the outer and middle (tympanic membrane- malleus- incus- stapes) ear is to amplify and provide a "sound impedance" match into the cochlear fluid. That is what the bone conduction device replaces.

yes, in fact, I chose the hand and shoulder precisely because they have more bony protuberances so I would place my piezoelectric speaker there. so even using a 10W piezoelectric I wouldn't be able to hear anything?

 

[hutchphd]

I think this would be easy to test. With enough power you should be able to hear something. Whether the signal would be recognizeable is another question.

 

[Sibilo]

I think this would be easy to test. With enough power you should be able to hear something. Whether the signal would be recognizeable is another question.

to be able to transmit the sound in the body starting from the shoulder up to the cochlea I have to use a lot of bass, and therefore I don't think the sentences are understandable, but it's enough for me to hear some noises/knocks

 

[hutchphd]

Remember that the thorax/lungs are a resonant chamber. Why not attach the piezo to the usual mastoid bone? Cosmetic reasons? What is your purpose here?

 

[Sibilo]

Remember that the thorax/lungs are a resonant chamber. Why not attach the piezo to the usual mastoid bone? Cosmetic reasons? What is your purpose here?

simple curiosity, I had seen some bone conduction bracelets but then you had to put your finger close to your ear, so I thought if putting the piezo on your shoulder could make you feel something

 

[Rive]

so even using a 10W piezoelectric I wouldn't be able to hear anything?

... Well, I'm pretty sure you would hear many interesting things (for example, it's easy to learn about opinions of others and new colorful words this way ) with a 10W speaker sitting on your wrist, but the very point of bone conduction is that it can bypass outer ear without excess sound volume.

Sure, some (not much!) sound may travel through the bones, but how can you tell it apart?

 

[Sibilo]

... Well, I'm pretty sure you would hear many interesting things (for example, it's easy to learn about opinions of others and new colorful words this way ) with a 10W speaker sitting on your wrist, but the very point of bone conduction is that it can bypass outer ear without excess sound volume.

Sure, some (not much!) sound may travel through the bones, but how can you tell it apart?

no but I have already said that even monotonous sounds such as bangs or beats are fine with me, also because the frequency is very low and there will be dampening in the body due to the different composition of the tissues. so are you sure that with a 10W piezo placed on my wrist I can feel something? I can also place it on my shoulder

 

[Rive]

are you sure that with a 10W piezo placed on my wrist I can feel something?

You would feel your wrist shaking, and that's the best.
Worst case, we are talking about various tissue and (blood) circulation damages (10W is lot!).

As sound (though bones), within bearable and safe boundaries - nothing.

 

[Sibilo]

You would feel your wrist shaking, and that's the best.
Worst case, we are talking about various tissue and (blood) circulation damages (10W is lot!).

As sound (though bones), within bearable and safe boundaries - nothing.

earlier you said that by placing the piezo on your wrist you could hear something in the cochlea, I'm confused, for me it's enough that you hear bangs or beats and not complex sounds. on the shoulder?

 

[Rive]

earlier you said that by placing the piezo on your wrist you could hear something in the cochlea,

I said some (not much!) may travel through.
Since the body parts are connected, it's unavoidable.
I also hinted that you won't be able to tell apart what's coming through your body and through your ear.

 

[Sibilo]

I said some (not much!) may travel through.
Since the body parts are connected, it's unavoidable.
I also hinted that you won't be able to tell apart what's coming through your body and through your ear.

ah ok ok I misunderstood the translation. yes, in fact, many frequencies will be suppressed, especially the highest ones, and in fact this is why I want to place it on the shoulder. I saw a video on YouTube where a 15W speaker could make a 5-story building vibrate so they are very powerful. the important thing is also to create an effective sounding board to better convey and multiply the waves.