Boson coherence at high temperatures?

[BkBkBk]

I was just reading up on Bose-einstein condensates and was wondering about something,hopefully you could point me in the right direction.

so when you get atoms down to a low enough temperature the pauli exlusion principle gives out and they can sit ontop of each other like bosons,and they occupy the same energy level and become coherent(possibly not the right word to use here?),well what i was wondering was,at high enough temperatures could the reverse happen to say,gluons or photons,could you get the temperature high enough that they start to interact with themselves and start acting like fermions,with boundries? and loose their ability to sit ontop of eachtother?

 

[nismaratwork]

I was just reading up on Bose-einstein condensates and was wondering about something,hopefully you could point me in the right direction.

so when you get atoms down to a low enough temperature the pauli exlusion principle gives out and they can sit ontop of each other like bosons,and they occupy the same energy level and become coherent(possibly not the right word to use here?),well what i was wondering was,at high enough temperatures could the reverse happen to say,gluons or photons,could you get the temperature high enough that they start to interact with themselves and start acting like fermions,with boundries? and loose their ability to sit ontop of eachtother?

I think you have a few misconceptions here, but if I am correct in your question than the Quark-Gluon Plasma would be the opposite you're thinking of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark–gluon_plasma

Some additions to clear those misconceptions.

Here, let me see if this helps you: B-E condensates are of BOSONS, which do not obey the Pauli Exclusion Principle, and the condensates made from fermions are:

Related experiments in cooling fermions rather than bosons to extremely low temperatures have created degenerate gases, where the atoms do not congregate in a single state due to the Pauli exclusion principle. To exhibit Bose–Einstein condensation, the fermions must "pair up" to form compound particles (e.g. molecules or Cooper pairs) that are bosons. The first molecular Bose–Einstein condensates were created in November 2003 by the groups of Rudolf Grimm at the University of Innsbruck, Deborah S. Jin at the University of Colorado at Boulder and Wolfgang Ketterle at MIT. Jin quickly went on to create the first fermionic condensate composed of Cooper pairs.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_einstein_condensate

You can get degenerate matter to some as-yet undetermined point, maybe quarks or more... definitely degenerate electrons (White Dwarf) and degenerate neutron matter (Neutron Stars). When you overcome all of that, you have a black-hole, not a B-E Condensate.

 

[BkBkBk]

Perfect response thank you!

You can get degenerate matter to some as-yet undetermined point, maybe quarks or more... definitely degenerate electrons (White Dwarf) and degenerate neutron matter (Neutron Stars). When you overcome all of that, you have a black-hole, not a B-E Condensate.

so if I've understood you properly,the point at which the pressure/temperature gets high enough to overcome the pauli exlusion principle would be equivilent to overcoming the TOV/Chandrasekhar limit?and so even if there was a change of state in the matter,we couldn't measure it anyway because the result of getting to that point would be a black hole?

 

[Ferovertish]

what do you exactly mean by "photons at high temperature."
temperature is the kinetic energy of the molecules... you can not go faster than light, thus, you can not increase the temperature of photons!hope that helped

 

[BkBkBk]

oh,didnt notice i had written it so badly,i didnt mean the photons themselves,rather the photons contained within a substance at high temperatures,nismaratwork was quite right in desciphering what i meant (a good example would be the trapped photons before recombination)

 

[nismaratwork]

Perfect response thank you!



so if I've understood you properly,the point at which the pressure/temperature gets high enough to overcome the pauli exlusion principle would be equivilent to overcoming the TOV/Chandrasekhar limit?and so even if there was a change of state in the matter,we couldn't measure it anyway because the result of getting to that point would be a black hole?

That's exactly it, at some point (neutrons or quarks or "x particle") GR says you get a singularity, and bam, you've gone past your limits. In nature, gravity does this, but it is as you imply, a function of mass in a small area, and that is high energy.

You were imprecise, but I understood, and I'm not even in the field. I think you did well, and remember this place is all about education anyway.

Ferovertish: Did you read the bit about QGP? I think that makes your point moot.