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Boson coherence at high temperatures?

  1. Jun 22, 2010 #1
    I was just reading up on Bose-einstein condensates and was wondering about something,hopefully you could point me in the right direction.

    so when you get atoms down to a low enough temperature the pauli exlusion principle gives out and they can sit ontop of eachother like bosons,and they occupy the same energy level and become coherent(possibly not the right word to use here?),well what i was wondering was,at high enough temperatures could the reverse happen to say,gluons or photons,could you get the temperature high enough that they start to interact with themselves and start acting like fermions,with boundries? and loose their ability to sit ontop of eachtother?
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 22, 2010 #2
    I think you have a few misconceptions here, but if I am correct in your question than the Quark-Gluon Plasma would be the opposite you're thinking of. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark–gluon_plasma

    Some additions to clear those misconceptions.

    Here, let me see if this helps you: B-E condensates are of BOSONS, which do not obey the Pauli Exclusion Principle, and the condensates made from fermions are:


    You can get degenerate matter to some as-yet undetermined point, maybe quarks or more... definitely degenerate electrons (White Dwarf) and degenerate neutron matter (Neutron Stars). When you overcome all of that, you have a black-hole, not a B-E Condensate.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  4. Jun 22, 2010 #3
    Perfect response thank you!

    so if ive understood you properly,the point at which the pressure/temperature gets high enough to overcome the pauli exlusion principle would be equivilent to overcoming the TOV/Chandrasekhar limit?and so even if there was a change of state in the matter,we couldnt measure it anyway because the result of getting to that point would be a black hole?
  5. Jun 22, 2010 #4
    what do you exactly mean by "photons at high temperature."
    temperature is the kinetic energy of the molecules... you can not go faster than light, thus, you can not increase the temperature of photons!hope that helped
  6. Jun 22, 2010 #5
    oh,didnt notice i had written it so badly,i didnt mean the photons themselves,rather the photons contained within a substance at high temperatures,nismaratwork was quite right in desciphering what i meant (a good example would be the trapped photons before recombination)
  7. Jun 23, 2010 #6
    That's exactly it, at some point (neutrons or quarks or "x particle") GR says you get a singularity, and bam, you've gone past your limits. In nature, gravity does this, but it is as you imply, a function of mass in a small area, and that is high energy.

    You were imprecise, but I understood, and I'm not even in the field. I think you did well, and remember this place is all about education anyway.

    Ferovertish: Did you read the bit about QGP? I think that makes your point moot.
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