Boyfriend is very homophobic. Can we make it work?

[Toph_fan]

She doesn't want to respect his views, does the OP make red flags pop up?
The only difference is that you agree with her views more than his so you see his reluctance to accept her views as alien where as her reluctance to accept his views is perfectly normal.

That's true. I mean you can argue that he's prejudiced and that I have the morally correct view but he doesn't really see it that way. He comes from a Christian fundamentalist family. Religion is a huge part of their life. He was raised to believe that being gay is a choice. None of the homophobic comments he's made have been excessively vile. Most of his comments have been about how he believes in the biblical definition of marriage and how he feels that Christian fundamentalists are being persecuted for their beliefs by liberals. He's also said how he doesn't know why anyone would choose to be gay and has several times said he doesn't "approve of their lifestyle". He's been raised to believe these things so I don't hold it against him too much but it does bother me that he's not open-minded. I just don't know whether or not I'm making too big of an issue out of this. I wish I could get him to read some Richard Dawkins stuff.

 

[dipole]

I'm in a similar situation, except the homophobic thing isn't a problem to me. I've been dating a christian girl for over a year now. She's very much convinced about her beliefs, and I am very anti-religion. We also argue over political stuff - I hate war and warmongers and her family is mostly military.

We get along great, and it's so easy to convince yourself that it will work anyways, and maybe it would, but I think we will both be happier in the long run with someone else. I don't want my children lied to and scared into believing in God and religion, and she doesn't want her children to burn in hell.

 

[Number Nine]

I could never date a guy that hates gays, but that's just me.

I agree with this, but probably not for the same reason. I have no great humanitarian streak, and don't share any real solidarity with the GLBT community (largely due to lack of personal contact), but I genuinely can't comprehend expending the energy required to maintain a strong emotional opposition to something as utterly insignificant as sexual orientation, and I tend to be deeply suspicious of those who do.

Here we have someone who is deeply religious, believes that scientists in every branch of science are engaged in an organized and coordinated conspiracy to create the illusion of climate change (for some malevolent purpose), and has what is almost certainly a deeply political opposition to environmentalism (again, likely involving some malevolent conspiracy among scientists and environmentalists). It all strikes me as some sort of intellectual deficiency, especially given that he absolutely refuses to engages in any for of rational argument.

OP: How do you expect to have any interesting conversations at all with this person (ever) when he's incapable of or disinterested in rational argument? "Strong feelings" aren't enough; eventually the infatuation will pass and you'll be left with two personalities who can, ideally, derive pleasure from each other's company and navigate the many obstacles of life together. I don't think you have any of that (and I don't think he's capable of that).

 

[Anna Blanksch]

I could never date a guy that hates gays, but that's just me.

Hahaha That's awesome. Well said.

Toph... I understand and can relate to your situation, but I honestly think that you need to really try to discuss you concerns with your boyfriend, especially since you feel so strongly about your views. If he really loves you (which it seems like he does!) he will want to understand your perspectives more and talk it out. I think you guys can make it work but you really have to talk about things openly. Otherwise, I feel that these underlying issues will only fester until they become huge problems... especially once there are kids involved.

On another note... you are NOT past your prime! I met my sugar dumpling (and we are getting married next summer!) only once I really stopped putting some much effort into finding "the one." I met him after college, on a soccer field. I am 24 and he is 29 and more perfect for me than I could have imagined a guy could be. It was only when I met him that I realized how unperfect for me my last serious boyfriend was and how glad I was that I didn't settle.

In conclusion... Try talking about things openly but don't feel trapped. If you are amazing and single, there is definitely someone else out there who is amazing and single and wondering if you are out there for them.

Good luck :)

 

[zoobyshoe]

I agree, he really IS a nice guy. Even my mom agrees and she's good at reading people (I know that's not proof). He's not even that irrational, just indoctrinated. Also, I found out that he believes in evolution so that's good.


I guess I want him to like/approve of them. I want him to realize that being gay is not a choice. He is polite to everyone. He believes in loving the person not their sin. I just want him to be more open-minded and less indoctrinated.


He really is not the controlling type. That much I'm almost certain of. I think he just tries to avoid conflict by avoiding my questions. I do think that people can change. He's only 21. However, I'm assuming that he won't change a lot.

The more you describe him the more he seems like an essentially nice person who is constrained by his religion to hold an official stance of disapproval of gays. Under these circumstances the disapproval strikes me as being skin deep and not very indicative of the kind of person he is.

I think, but I'm not sure, I think your question might boil down to, not whether you and him will be able to get along in the future, but whether or not you'll be able to take him anywhere. Hehe.

 

[Skrew]

What's more important, your relationship as a whole or your views on sexual orientation?

I won't date plenty of people because I care about specific things and have no interest in being with someone who disagrees with me in these areas but this a preemptive position.

 

[Pythagorean]

I can see why "doesn't respect your views" would pop a red flag in this case, but you're suggesting that being nice pops another red flag. That doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know... nice is actually a rather meaningless measure of the merits of character beyond the surface. Nice mostly means they say nice things and give people things. It doesn't really mean they respect your values or are willing to engage in any kind of meaningful conversation with you. We don't use the word "nice" to describe a real philanthropist. They get much deeper words like "compassionate" and "humanitarian". We don't use "nice" to describe a passionate lover...A perfect example is the "nice guy"

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2010/05/alt-text-nice-guys-guide/

These guys aren't going to beat their girlfriends or anything, but they certainly have a warped sense of entitlement...

So I don't know.. I think we use "nice" to describe somebody this is really only "socially nice". Nice on the surface, polite... maybe only because they're a spineless coward and lack any enjoyable traits, so they have to make up with it by being nice. Of course, a philanthropist can be nice as well, and so can a passionate lover. But we usually don't use the word "nice" to describe them (even if they may be "socially nice") because they have deeper traits that are more admirable, so calling them "nice" is a disservice.

 

[256bits]

I'm not sure whether or not I want to be with him still.

Are you a conflicted girl? Are you wondering "Is this as good as it will ever get?" Nice guy boyfriend who makes you feel as the only girl in the world. But I do not see any passion no spark. The guy is not bad enough for you - is that the problem?

In fact, quite the opposite - you seem to diss him and portray him as being wanting. It is not enduring for a good solid relationship, to have one partner critical of the emotional and intellectual aspects of the other, their beliefs and behaviorisms, as being of a lessor quality. A liberal viewpoint does not automatically make one superior. Nor correct in the getting under the skin of someone else and mis-understandings of what makes them tick. Perhaps you should do a little less of the psychological analysis because you just could be wrong.


You have not answered jackmell's riddle. It works both ways -for YOU and for him.

Then ask him to answer this riddle:

A couple, early twenties, got a one-year old and a two year old. Mom stays home all day long taking care of them while he goes to work. He comes in at 4:00p and they both give each other the same precious gift. What is it?

I do not know if you and your boyfriend can make it. You seem to rationalize why it shouldn't. Maybe you yourself should work a little bit harder on the portrayal of him in a better light. But at least this way if the relationship does not, at least there will not be any emotional repercussions on your part, since you already had suspisions that he could not change.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Here's the main problem: our ideologies are completely different. I was raised in a secular household and religion has never been a part of my life. I'm liberal, I believe in climate change, I care for the environment and I'm not homophobic. He and his family are of course the opposite. My boyfriend doesn't believe in climate change and his sister has called people concerned about the environment hippies twice now. My bf thinks that climate change is just a big lie invented to make money. Both he and his sister believe that being gay is a choice and constantly make homophobic remarks. My bf even joked once that he'd break up with me if I wasn't homophobic even though he knows that I have close gay friends. I asked him once why he thought being gay was a choice and he told me that he thinks it's just a fad. I then tried to reason with him but he just ignored me and changed the topic. Also, his sister is a young Earth creationist even though she's really smart and a biology major. It just blows my mind how she can so readily disregard established scientific theories that conflict with her beliefs (such as the evidence for climate change, evolution etc). What's worse is that my boyfriend never wants to engage in friendly debates. I'm not one of those in your face debaters, I would just like to defend my position sometimes.

It's frustrating just talking with people like that, I can't imagine having a boyfriend (or girlfriend in my case) who has such radical beliefs.
People can change their opinion on those matters, but it has to be beat into them over a long period of time.

I think it's every rational minded person's duty to fight irrationality every chance they get.
I'd say if the topic comes up, you should be prepared to defend the truth. Try to change him. Don't go out of your way and bring up climate change or anything like that, but any time the topic comes up, I think you should debate it smartly and calmly, but you shouldn't just let it go.

 

[rootX]

It's frustrating just talking with people like that, I can't imagine having a boyfriend (or girlfriend in my case) who has such radical beliefs.
People can change their opinion on those matters, but it has to be beat into them over a long period of time.

I think it's every rational minded person's duty to fight irrationality every chance they get.
.

You can say this it is being too close minded also. Rationality seem to have very little importance in personal matters like families/relationships. Personally, I find it too annoying dealing with people with very strong opinions whether they are rational or irrational.

 

[phys0101]

Why do you care? Unless you want to be DPed.

 

[jduster]

my uncle is very racist against black people, but other than that he is one of the greatest most generous nicest people that i know, who has done so much volunteer work who helps his community. my aunt made the right choice by living with him.

so i wouldn't let one isolated trait, decide it all.

 

[Nikitin]

Just an observation:

You guys keep babbling about how the bf doesn't respect the girl's views, but it seems to me that it's you people who don't respect the bf's homophobic views... I mean, whenever the bf was confronted by the OP about his views he shifted the topic to avoid conflict. If he didn't respect her views, he'd push his point and try to convince the girl of his viewpoint.

So stop whining to dump him because just because he doesn't want to change his apparently bad ideology.. Or making up stuff about him being a psycho posing as "overly nice". It's bad manners painting a person as 100% bad just because he holds Christian-conservative views.

 

[Pythagorean]

homophobic views aren't respectable. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a strong aspect of Christian principles are love and acceptance, even to the extent of turning the other cheek when assaulted. So it's really a double standard to try and base intolerance on Christian values.

 

[Nikitin]

Just because you're required to not be violent towards bad people (like homosexuals according to Christianity), doesn't mean you should like them. So unless the guy has interacted with hostility towards gays, I don't see how he breaks Christian morals.

Anyway, my point was that people here are demonizing the guy just because his morals don't match theirs.

 

[Evo]

They have basic disagreements in their beliefs and he refuses to discuss it. That might be fine if they were just aquaintences that met occasionally, but as a husband and wife, it's a recipe for failure.

 

[alan2]

Seems like a lot of posts are trying to decide who's right and who's wrong. My personal experience is that it doesn't matter. If you hold radically different views on matters of great importance to one or the other of you it won't work. Ask my ex wives. Move on before you become legally obligated.

 

[lisab]

They have basic disagreements in their beliefs and he refuses to discuss it. That might be fine if they were just aquaintences that met occasionally, but as a husband and wife, it's a recipe for failure.

Seems like a lot of posts are trying to decide who's right and who's wrong. My personal experience is that it doesn't matter. If you hold radically different views on matters of great importance to one or the other of you it won't work. Ask my ex wives. Move on before you become legally obligated.

+1 for wisdom.

 

[Czcibor]

A one more factor - in early 20s people don't have fully developed their views. It would evolve. That are last years in which one could support beautiful visions and his/her world is black and white. Idealism, in this case in its conservative version could melt away, and be replaced by cynicism and pragmatism. (I'm not making it up, that what has happened to me, really. Now I'm 26). Neither of you should be in long run invulnerable to this process, so the problem should partially diminish with time. Really, on average in long term people with more experience and knowledge tend to have more moderate views, regardless of starting point.

Assuming that you can reach a reasonable compromise how to bring up children with person of different views and can have all discussion civic... Honestly, if his opposite political views are the only problem... Keep him.

EDIT: And I've got an annoying feeling that for a few people here having such views as her boyfriend has is an evidence that he is twisted, manipulative and evil. Come on... (In Europe we have hordes of left wing who fight crusades against GMO and nuclear energy, so I think that accepting science as long as it does not oppose already held convictions is not a problem that affects only right wing)

 

[tahayassen]

I love how people took Jimmy's joke seriously. =')

 

[trueo]

Your homophobic boyfriend is just very boy right now. Years later, he'll become friendly to everyone, and when he reaches 40 or so, he'll be one.

 

[lisab]

I love how people took Jimmy's joke seriously. =')

That happens to poor Jimmy regularly .

 

[Rob D]

Sorry to get in so late in the discussion. I have read the entire thread and something came to mind early and stayed until the end. One word: Narcissist

I am not qualified to say more but I strongly suggest that you seek out a therapist trained in psychology and ask them whether your bf is narcissistic personality. I fear that he is.

Best of Luck and NO, 25 is not the end of the road. Gad the narrow perception of the very young. I met my wife when she was 35 and we've been together 21 years. How? We talk frankly and openly about our values, beliefs or lack of them and world view. We held nothing back. Now, we are the happiest people I know.

No, 25 is not too late. There is such a wonderful cornecopia of people and personalities out there. Go get some.

Rob

 

[Toph_fan]

Sorry to get in so late in the discussion. I have read the entire thread and something came to mind early and stayed until the end. One word: Narcissist

I am not qualified to say more but I strongly suggest that you seek out a therapist trained in psychology and ask them whether your bf is narcissistic personality. I fear that he is.

Best of Luck and NO, 25 is not the end of the road. Gad the narrow perception of the very young. I met my wife when she was 35 and we've been together 21 years. How? We talk frankly and openly about our values, beliefs or lack of them and world view. We held nothing back. Now, we are the happiest people I know.

No, 25 is not too late. There is such a wonderful cornecopia of people and personalities out there. Go get some.

Rob

My bf doesn't have a narcissistic personality. Also, you're a guy so it's a lot easier for you to meet someone at 35 than it is for a woman. I bet your wife is younger than you. Women are much more heavily judged on beauty and youth. I don't think that 25 is the end but the fact is that the majority of guys are married by age 30 (~70%). I know a lot of these marriage fail but I don't want to marry a guy with kids and/or baggage. When you factor in the fact that people usually date for a few years before marriage it leaves a much smaller pool of suitors. I'm just trying to be realistic. I used to be idealistic and I thought I would hold out for a guy that was close to perfect for me but I realize now that's probably never going to happen. In fact, out of all the guys I've gotten to know, I think my bf would make the best partner and the pool is as large as it's going to get.

 

[member 392791]

He's not the only one for you.

There are thousands of other people..perhaps millions, that you could potentially get along with.

Your scope of the amount of people out there is very limited...more than you think.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Sorry to get in so late in the discussion. I have read the entire thread and something came to mind early and stayed until the end. One word: Narcissist
I am not qualified to say more but I strongly suggest that you seek out a therapist trained in psychology and ask them whether your bf is narcissistic personality. I fear that he is.

Interesting I came to a similar conclusion, only about the OP. Who seems to be over complicating and obsessing about this, and is acutally the one with the problem.

Spot the inconsistency.

Help, my boyfriend is very homophobic but a great boyfriend.

He believes they deserve to be treated well just like any other human being and that "one should love the person but not what they do".

Disagreeing with someones lifestyle, is not homophobia. Especially when you yourself say he doesn't believe in discrimination.

This is a thing I've been noticing more and more lately, or something that 'atheists' do. They tend to be egotists, suffer from arrogance/intelectual snobbery and mock others for differing viewpoints whilst accusing others of intolerance.

The tendency to label and box oneself, then look down upon anyone who doesn't have the same label tattood on their forehead.I am an atheist, I believe x,y,z. My subjective position is right becuase I R RATIONAL!

I just feel like I could make him see the light if I could appeal to his reason a bit. Actually I think the biggest problem is that he's a bit closed minded.

Do you not see how condecending this is? "See the light?" Gordon Bennet. You also proceed to mock and use an insult for not enjoying the same things as you.

I just feel like if you don't like ANY literature then you must be missing something. I think that perhaps he lacks emotional intelligence.

Does this matter? Does it matter if he doesn't agree with you regarding the lifestyle of a gay person. Does it matter that he doesn't like literature? You also mock him for his poor grammar.



Now on saying all of that.

Can we make it work?

Judging by how much you defended him, and seem to genuinely care. Yes. All of the diffeences appear to be irrelevent. If anything is going to torpedo the relationship, it's your obsessing with how it could fail.

 

[Rob D]

To xxChrisxx: While I am Atheist and Anti-theist in the Hitchens sort of way, I hope that I conduct all aspects of my life with proper humility and empathy. Hence my concern that the young lady is confronted with a narcissist. However, your perhaps quite insightful observatiion that she is the personality problem at play in this situation may be spot on. I could argue that my suggestion to seek professional counsel is, then, ever the better one.

Toph fan: If I may be so bold, exactly why did you come to this group, a forum composed of perhaps the most pragmatic bunch on the internet, to discuss an interpersonal problem? We're more "Dear Dr. Susskind" than "Dear Dr. Phil".

Yes, I'm older than my wife. However, we recognized that to be a problem in our pre-nuptial discussions rather than an advantage.

Hitch Abides,
Rob

 

[Toph_fan]

Interesting I came to a similar conclusion, only about the OP. Who seems to be over complicating and obsessing about this, and is acutally the one with the problem.

Spot the inconsistency.
Disagreeing with someones lifestyle, is not homophobia. Especially when you yourself say he doesn't believe in discrimination.

This is a thing I've been noticing more and more lately, or something that 'atheists' do. They tend to be egotists, suffer from arrogance/intelectual snobbery and mock others for differing viewpoints whilst accusing others of intolerance.

The tendency to label and box oneself, then look down upon anyone who doesn't have the same label tattood on their forehead.I am an atheist, I believe x,y,z. My subjective position is right becuase I R RATIONAL!Do you not see how condecending this is? "See the light?" Gordon Bennet. You also proceed to mock and use an insult for not enjoying the same things as you.Does this matter? Does it matter if he doesn't agree with you regarding the lifestyle of a gay person. Does it matter that he doesn't like literature? You also mock him for his poor grammar.
Now on saying all of that.

Judging by how much you defended him, and seem to genuinely care. Yes. All of the diffeences appear to be irrelevent. If anything is going to torpedo the relationship, it's your obsessing with how it could fail.

So we broke up yesterday.

The problem is that he thinks being gay is a choice. The problem is that he believes this because he's intellectually lazy. I'm not saying he's intellectually lazy because his beliefs are different than mine but because I know how he justifies his beliefs. Whenever I question him on why he believes something, he justifies it very poorly. For example, he believes that being gay is a choice because the bible condemns homosexuality. However, that doesn't make sense because premarital sex is also condemned yet it's obvious that people have the desire to have premarital sex. He was originally against premarital sex but then decided it was ok and that makes him a hypocrite. In fact he was the one who convinced me to have sex. Also, he doesn't believe that DADT should have been repealed or that gays should be allowed to marry or have children. Intellectual laziness becomes a problem when it infringes on other people's rights.

Also, I didn't really tell the full story behind the grammar thing. My bf constantly complains about how other people are dumb and can't spell/write. In fact, he even went so far to correct me and another person on our fb status. It's kind of annoying that he takes so much pride in something that he's not that good at.

 

[xxChrisxx]

The problem is that he thinks being gay is a choice. The problem is that he believes this because he's intellectually lazy. I'm not saying he's intellectually lazy because his beliefs are different than mine but because I know how he justifies his beliefs. Whenever I question him on why he believes something, he justifies it very poorly.

Define justifies poorly? What you really mean is didn't come to an conclusion that you deemed valid or 'rationally'. Opinions are frequently derived emotionally, and there really isn't anything wrong with that if it doesn't affect anyone else. As you said before he doesn't believe in discrimination.

What if he agreed with your position but didn't have a rational reason for it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_in_a_Teacup

 

[Fredrik]

Define justifies poorly? What you really mean is didn't come to an conclusion that you deemed valid or 'rationally'. Opinions are frequently derived emotionally, and there really isn't anything wrong with that if it doesn't affect anyone else. As you said before he doesn't believe in discrimination.

She gave an example of what she's talking about. How is that not good enough? I think it's clear what she means, and that there's definitely something wrong with the way of thinking that she's describing.