bra-ket with adjoints identity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the identity involving adjoints in the context of bra-ket notation, specifically examining the relationship between operators and their adjoints in linear algebra. Participants explore a specific example using matrices to illustrate their points, raising questions about fundamental misunderstandings related to this identity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about a fundamental point regarding the adjoint identity, seeking clarification.
  • Another participant states the correct equation involving adjoints: $$\langle v|A|w\rangle = \langle w|A^{\dagger}|v \rangle^*$$.
  • A participant summarizes their understanding, noting a specific example with real matrices that leads to confusion about the adjoint relationship.
  • The same participant provides detailed calculations to illustrate the adjoint identity, showing that both sides yield the same result under specific conditions.
  • There is a mention of the associativity of matrix multiplication, indicating a potential misunderstanding in the application of the adjoint identity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the fundamental misunderstanding, as one participant seeks clarification while others provide equations and examples that may not fully resolve the confusion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes specific examples and calculations that may depend on the definitions of the operators involved and the properties of the matrices used. There is an indication of unresolved assumptions regarding the application of the adjoint identity.

nomadreid
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TL;DR
I thought that, if B is the adjoint of A, <v|A|w>=<v|(A|w>)=<(v|B)|w>. But a simple example with real matrices trips me up.
Continuing the summary: the example in question is
adjoint.png

Obviously I am understanding some extremely elementary point incorrectly. What? Many thanks!
 
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The correct equation is:
$$\langle v|A|w\rangle = \langle w|A^{\dagger}|v \rangle^*$$
 
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nomadreid said:
TL;DR Summary: I thought that, if B is the adjoint of A, <v|A|w>=<v|(A|w>)=<(v|B)|w>. But a simple example with real matrices trips me up.

Continuing the summary: the example in question is
View attachment 357730
Obviously I am understanding some extremely elementary point incorrectly. What? Many thanks!
The formula is
$$
\bigl\langle A(x),y \bigr\rangle = \bigl\langle x, A^\dagger (y) \bigr\rangle .
$$

This means for your example with ##x=(0,1)## and ##y=(3,4)## that
\begin{align*}
\bigl\langle A(x),y \bigr\rangle &=\bigl\langle \begin{pmatrix}1&2\\3&4\end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix}0\\1\end{pmatrix}\, , \,\begin{pmatrix}3\\4\end{pmatrix} \bigr\rangle =\bigl\langle \begin{pmatrix}2\\4\end{pmatrix}\, , \,\begin{pmatrix}3\\4\end{pmatrix} \bigr\rangle =22\\[12pt]
\bigl\langle x , A^\dagger (y)\bigr\rangle &= \bigl\langle \begin{pmatrix}0\\1\end{pmatrix}\, , \,\begin{pmatrix}1&3\\2&4\end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix}3\\4\end{pmatrix} \bigr\rangle =\bigl\langle \begin{pmatrix}0\\1\end{pmatrix}\, , \,\begin{pmatrix}15\\22\end{pmatrix} \bigr\rangle =22
\end{align*}
or the other way around
$$
\bigl\langle A^\dagger (x),y \bigr\rangle = \bigl\langle x, A(y) \bigr\rangle =25 .
$$
What you have calculated was the associativity of matrix multiplication with two different matrices:
##XAY \neq_{i.g.} XA^\dagger Y.##
 
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Many,many thanks, PeroK and fresh42!
 

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