Bragg curve -> observing dependence on velocity

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the velocity dependence of stopping power as illustrated in the context of Bragg curves, specifically referencing figures from a research paper. Participants are exploring how this dependence can be observed and interpreted through graphical representations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between stopping power and velocity, referencing figures to illustrate their points. There are attempts to deduce the implications of the figures and to clarify the definitions and relationships involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants offering insights and questioning assumptions about the figures and their interpretations. Some guidance is provided regarding the relationship between stopping power and velocity, but no consensus has been reached on all aspects of the interpretation.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working from a specific paper and are considering the implications of figures presented therein. There is mention of potential confusion regarding figure references and the definitions of stopping power, which may affect the interpretation of the data.

pepediaz
Messages
49
Reaction score
5
Homework Statement
None, it is just a paper I am trying to understand.
Relevant Equations
https://www.fuw.edu.pl/IIPRACOWNIA/home/Opisy-cwiczen/J14_2015.09.16_publikacja.pdf
We can read: "The velocity dependence of the stopping power, increasing with decreasing velocity, is obvious from Fig.4".

I know why the stopping power depends on velocity as Bethe equation states, but I do not know how I can observe that dependence on a Bragg curve.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
pepediaz said:
Homework Statement:: None, it is just a paper I am trying to understand.
Relevant Equations:: https://www.fuw.edu.pl/IIPRACOWNIA/home/Opisy-cwiczen/J14_2015.09.16_publikacja.pdf

We can read: "The velocity dependence of the stopping power, increasing with decreasing velocity, is obvious from Fig.4".

I know why the stopping power depends on velocity as Bethe equation states, but I do not know how I can observe that dependence on a Bragg curve.
Possibly a simple mistake. I think 'Fig. 4' should be 'Fig. 3' - then it makes sense.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pepediaz
ah okay, so it is because at equal displacements (the markers on abscissa), the plotted function starts kinda lineally, but then decays steeply. As a result, energy decreases steeply -> the squared velocity decreases steeply -> the stopping power increases, isn't it?

Thanks!
 
Maybe you can think about it this way. Suppose the stopping power did not depend on the speed of the particle. Then doubling the absorber thickness ##\Delta x## would double the energy loss ##\Delta E##. So, the ratio ##\Delta E/\Delta x## would not change if you double the thickness. So, what would Fig. 4 look like if the stopping power were independent of the speed of the particle?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pepediaz
We would have the Fig.3 as a decreasing line function and Fig.4 as a constant value.

But how do we know from Fig 3 or 4 that it is velocity and not other parameter what creates dependence for dE/dx ?
 
pepediaz said:
We would have the Fig.3 as a decreasing line function and Fig.4 as a constant value.
Yes.

pepediaz said:
But how do we know from Fig 3 or 4 that it is velocity and not other parameter what creates dependence for dE/dx ?
For a given medium, I can't think of any parameter other than the speed (or energy) of the alpha particle that would be relevant. As the particle slows down, it might capture one or more electrons and so the charge of the particle could change. But, it seems to me that the probability of electron capture would be determined by the speed of the particle. However, I have not studied this topic in any detail. So, I could be wrong.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pepediaz
Let me have another go...

First, note that stopping power is really ##-\frac {dE}{dx}## but the authors have dodged the minus sign by referring to stopping power as the ‘rate of energy loss’. I’ll stick with their usage.

The (empirical) relationship between stopping power and velocity might best be deduced by considering Fig. 3 and Fig. 4. together. Remember Fig. 4 is directly derived from Fig. 3, being essentially a graph of Fig. 3’s gradient vs. absorber thickness. Note ##\frac {ΔE}{Δx}## has been used in Fig. 4 rather than ##\frac {dE}{dx}##.

The kink in Fig. 3 and the peak shown in Fig. 4 are anomalous, as explained at the end of the paper’s 2nd paragraph. So consider absorber thickness (x) up to x=36cm only; i.e. exclude the kink and peak

Consider thickness x=3cm.
From Fig. 3, E ≈ 5.2 MeV so velocity ≈ ##\sqrt {5.2} = 2.3## (funny units).
From Fig. 4, stopping power = ##\frac {ΔE}{Δx}## ≈ 1.0MeV/cm.

Consider thickness x=36cm.
From Fig. 3, E ≈ 1.3MeV so velocity ≈ ##\sqrt {1.3} ≈ 1.1## (funny units).
From Fig. 4, stopping power = ##\frac {ΔE}{Δx}## = 2.0MeV/cm.

Observe that up to x=36cm, the Fig. 3 graph is monotonically decreasing and the Fig.4 graph is monotonically increasing. So we see the general rule: stopping power increases as velocity decreases.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: pepediaz
Ah okay, I think that speed (or kinetic energy) is to look when studying stopping power. We see that matter absorbs and scatters alpha particles that traverse it.

I can also see that Fig.4 is the gradient of Fig.3 , and recognise the shape of the functions.

The key on this is that stopping power increases as velocity (kinetic energy) decreases, and we can check that comparing Figs. 3 and 4.

Thank you!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: TSny and Steve4Physics

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 54 ·
2
Replies
54
Views
11K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
9K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
11K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
6K