Bremsstrahlung near the cutoff frequency, experimental data

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the quest for experimental data related to the Bremsstrahlung process, particularly near the quantum mechanical cutoff frequency. Participants explore the feasibility of observing single quantum events and the potential for visual evidence through various experimental setups.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Experimental/applied
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Michel expresses interest in experimental data illustrating the Bremsstrahlung process, specifically seeking images of single events, such as those from a bubble chamber.
  • Michel suggests that individual electron experiments could provide insights into the quantum aspects of Bremsstrahlung.
  • Another participant questions the energy scales involved, noting that detectable recoil from a nucleus requires a minimum kinetic energy, which may complicate the observation of single events.
  • This participant also points out that photons do not leave traces in detectors, complicating the direct observation of Bremsstrahlung events.
  • Michel reiterates the desire for direct evidence of single Bremsstrahlung events and inquires about single-electron-impact experiments and historical data.
  • A later reply mentions existing experiments on proton-proton and neutron-proton scattering that involve Bremsstrahlung, providing a reference to a recent study.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the challenges of obtaining direct evidence of single Bremsstrahlung events, but there are differing views on the feasibility and types of experimental data that could be relevant.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the energy requirements for detecting recoil and the nature of photon detection, which may affect the interpretation of potential experimental results.

lalbatros
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Goodmorning,

I would be interrested in experimental data regarding the Bremsstrahlung process near the quantum mechanical cutoff, possibly single events data.

I thought that maybe something like a bubble chamber picture could illustrate this process. This is maybe a naïve dream but this would be the most convincing evidence about the quantum mechanical nature of this process: some pictures of individual events.

Would it be possible to see somehow the single photon as well as the recoil of one atom in such a picture?

In another dream I thought that maybe some individual electron experiments (I mean one electron at a time) could provide the same information.

Any other experimental data useful to illustrate the quantum aspects of Bremsstrahlung could be of interrest.

thanks,

Michel
 
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I don't know exactly what are the energy scales you are talking about. But I see two problems: in order for the recoil to be detectable, you would need a certain minimum kinetic energy of the nucleus so that it produces a track of, say, at least a few 100 micrometers. I think it would need at least a few KeV of energy before it is detectable. Now, to have a few KeV of *recoil* energy, this means that the photon must be quite higher.
Next, photons by themselves don't leave any trace in a detector. The only things that are detectable are photo-electric events (then, the photon is gone), or Compton events (the photon "survives" and an electron is emitted, and what is detectable is the emitted electron, not the photon itself.

So I'm not sure exactly what kind of event you'd like to see.
 
vanesch,

I am looking first to experimental data on the Bremsstrahlung as a single quantum event.
This would be the most direct evidence about this process, but there is indeed little chances that such data are available for the reasons you explained.
Other kind of data that would provide the same evidence would help me too, as long as the interpretation is not too much indirect.

In summary, I would "simply" like to see a single Bremsstrahlung event.
What about single-electron-impact experiments with photon coïncidence?
What about bremsstrahlung in gases?
Maybe some historical experiments?

Any idea?

Thanks,

Michel
 
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