Cal State vs UC: Benefits for Bachelor's Degree in Physics

[Duderonimous]

Hi there,

I am a student who as of now am looking to transfer to cal poly Pomona to pursue a bachelors in physics. I am going there for its convenient location and relatively cheap tuition. If everything goes well I plan on pursuing a masters or PhD some where else.

Before I decided to go to Pomona I was very adamant about getting into UCSD or a comparable UC school, but as I talked around with the physics and chemistry faculty at my college (Saddle Back college) many of them told me that it would be to my benefit to go to a Cal State school for a bachelors degree. They said UC's are more research oriented and catered to more graduate level students with pedagogy taking a backseat, classes are held in large auditoriums with 300+ students with little 1-1 time with the professor. Where as Cal state is more focused on teaching course material and courses are taught in smaller 30 persons classes. Its seems that when you are learning the basics it would be to your advantage to go to a school more focused on teaching you the material as opposed to upper level research?

Can anyone confirm or refute these statements?

As of right now I am set on going to Pomona for a bachelors and then applying to a more prestigious school afterwards.

Anyone's comments would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Pengwuino]

From personal experience, the problem with CSUs are the fact that expectations are lower and course offerings are fewer. You'll be with students who really don't try as hard. Of course, college is what you make of it and as long as you remember to always try to be the best you can be, it won't make too much of a difference.

UCs are more "you're on your own", CSUs are more "nurturing", although if you want to really get into a high-caliber graduate school, the latter can be very detrimental.

 

[flemmyd]

classes are held in large auditoriums with 300+ students with little 1-1 time with the professor.

As a nearby UC student, this is very true for the lower division courses. But for upper division courses, I've seldom seen courses above 50 students (often because there aren't that many students trying to take quantum mechanics).
If you were talking to some high school kid, I could understand this rational. I'm quite amazed to hear professors saying this as they should know better...

Also, all the graduate students I've seen get to spend MAYBE 3-4 hours a week with their advisor. And if' you're willing to go knock on a professor's door and ask for help (assuming you've done some work), they're always willing to help you. I've found a lot of kids (18-21 years old) are really expecting formulaic material and blame the teacher when they don't understand any idea more complex then a simple equation. They need that nurturing system.

UCs are more "you're on your own", CSUs are more "nurturing", although if you want to really get into a high-caliber graduate school, the latter can be very detrimental.

True. Professors won't baby you in graduate school. In some large groups I've been looking at, the professors don't actually talk to graduate students. They just talk to post-docs who talk to graduate students. Kind of like Reaganomics I think.

 

[Geezer]

As a nearby UC student, this is very true for the lower division courses. But for upper division courses, I've seldom seen courses above 50 students (often because there aren't that many students trying to take quantum mechanics).
If you were talking to some high school kid, I could understand this rational. I'm quite amazed to hear professors saying this as they should know better...

^^ Very, very true.

I'd go with a UC, without a doubt.

 

[Duderonimous]

If you were talking to some high school kid, I could understand this rational. I'm quite amazed to hear professors saying this as they should know better...

I've found a lot of kids (18-21 years old) are really expecting formulaic material and blame the teacher when they don't understand any idea more complex then a simple equation. They need that nurturing system.

Hearing professors say what?

So Cal State's are detrimental because they are too "nurturing"?

I agree that UC's are the way to go when you are a graduate student, but I should reemphasize that I am making these statements in regards to one who is pursuing a bachelors degree.

 

[scotto3394]

I can't advise you which school to go to, but let me tell you a little bit about UC schools (particularly the one I go to, UCR). Also, I'm a math major, not a physics major so there is only so much I know.

It's true that a lot of the general education classes and lower division classes are quite large. However here at UCR the introductory physics series for the physics majors has around 20 people. Once that series is completed you can go on to your upper division classes consisting only of physics majors, so expect those to be quite manageable in size. For upper division math courses here I know that you'll never see anything over 50 or 60 people and just last quarter I took a class consisting of around 17 people. Also, since you're a transfer I imagine that for the most part you would be going straight into your upper division classes and wouldn't have to worry so much about the larger lower division classes.

From what I've read and seen, I think it's fairly important for a physics major to get involved in research and work in a lab with a professor. While this might not be as important for you, I think that's one of the huge advantages of going to a research university like one of the UCs. I know of several physics majors (some even freshmen) who work in labs and probably will for the duration of their time at UCR.

just my two cents.

 

[Geezer]

From what I've read and seen, I think it's fairly important for a physics major to get involved in research and work in a lab with a professor. While this might not be as important for you, I think that's one of the huge advantages of going to a research university like one of the UCs. I know of several physics majors (some even freshmen) who work in labs and probably will for the duration of their time at UCR.

And that lab/research experience will be important when you apply to grad school. The CSUs aren't research-oriented; the profs and instructors have heavy teaching loads--relative to the UCs--and zero expectation of acquiring external funding or to remain actively engaged in research (if they were ever into research to begin with). Consequently, your (the student's) undergrad experience will be largely limited to taking classes; you will have very little opportunity for research.

Of course, you could attend a CSU and do REUs or other research in the summer at other institutions. However, a UC would provide year-round research opportunities.

 

[Duderonimous]

Thanks so much for the input.

 

[Pengwuino]

And that lab/research experience will be important when you apply to grad school. The CSUs aren't research-oriented; the profs and instructors have heavy teaching loads--relative to the UCs--and zero expectation of acquiring external funding or to remain actively engaged in research (if they were ever into research to begin with). Consequently, your (the student's) undergrad experience will be largely limited to taking classes; you will have very little opportunity for research.

Of course, you could attend a CSU and do REUs or other research in the summer at other institutions. However, a UC would provide year-round research opportunities.

Ah, but they DO have research. My CSU (Fresno) has a professor who works with CERN and even has funding for a post-doc. He also has had funding for the past few years to send a group of students to CERN during Summer. We also have another prof with a CM lab. Now, the thing is, none of these positions are paid positions (besides the post-doc of course) as far as I know, but it is research that students can be a part of and publish papers using and building a thesis off of.

There is, of course, some grumblings that these professors really aren't doing their expected amounts of teaching... but I think it's hard for the administration to really say much.

Finally, I mentioned only 2 labs/research areas because that's pretty much the entirety of it. At a UC, you'll find many many more research areas that you can be involved in and maybe even get paid for it as an undergrad!