Calculating df/dg with Chain Rule: Romeo's Guide

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter romeo6
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Chain Chain rule
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the chain rule in calculus, specifically regarding the calculation of the derivative of one function with respect to another function. Participants explore the implications of this concept in the context of multivariable functions and derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Romeo questions whether the chain rule can be used to calculate df/dg for functions f(x,y,z) and g(x,y,z).
  • Some participants express skepticism about the validity of calculating the derivative of one function with respect to another, suggesting it is nonsensical.
  • Others argue that it is possible to derive one function with respect to another, particularly in the context of variable transformations.
  • There is mention of the Jacobian matrix, which relates to partial derivatives of multiple variables, as a potential framework for understanding the relationships between f and g.
  • Some participants emphasize the need for proper assumptions regarding the functions f and g for the chain rule to apply correctly.
  • Discussions about the mathematical background of participants reveal varying levels of familiarity with calculus concepts, including multivariable calculus.
  • One participant suggests that derivatives with respect to a function could be justified under certain conditions, while others remain unconvinced.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether it is appropriate to calculate the derivative of one function with respect to another. Multiple competing views are presented, with some arguing against the validity of such calculations and others supporting the idea under specific conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that both functions have multiple variables, which complicates the discussion of derivatives. There is also an acknowledgment that the definitions and assumptions surrounding the functions f and g are crucial for determining the applicability of the chain rule.

  • #31
Mark44 said:
This really doesn't make much sense. You don't calculate the derivative of a function with respect to some other function, but you do calculate the derivative of a function with respect to one of its variables. Here g is a function, not a variable, so df/dg is nonsensical.

For another thing, both functions here have multiple variables, so instead of df/dx, df/dy, and df/dz, you would be working with partial derivatives,
\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}, \frac{\partial f}{\partial y}, \text{and} \frac{\partial f}{\partial z}

Other notation for these partials is fx, fy, and fz.
I disagree strongly with this- you always take the derivative of a function with respect to another function! In basic Calculus , of course, that second function is the identity function, x. But asking for the derivative of f with respect to g is just asking how fast f changes relative to g. If f and g are functions of the single variable, x, then, by the chain rule
\frac{df}{dg}= \frac{df}{dx}\frac{dx}{dg}= \frac{\frac{df}{dx}}{\frac{dg}{dx}}

If f and g are functions of the two variables x and y,
\frac{df}{dg}= \frac{\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}}{\frac{\partial g}{\partial x}}+ \frac{\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}}{\frac{\partial g}{\partial y}}
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K