Calculating the Dielectric Constant of Cold Dilute Rubidium Gas

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the dielectric constant of a cold dilute Rubidium gas, exploring theoretical approaches, relevant literature, and the complexities involved in such calculations. Participants consider both the theoretical framework and practical implications of their models.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the calculation of the dielectric constant for cold dilute Rubidium atoms and seeks book recommendations.
  • Another participant suggests that Feynman's lectures may contain relevant calculations, although they express uncertainty about the details.
  • A later reply questions the adequacy of Feynman's work for those focused on cold atom experiments and seeks more suitable literature.
  • Some participants argue that calculating the dielectric constant is complex and depends on frequency and temperature, emphasizing that the model used must account for specific processes involved.
  • It is noted that absorption processes affect the dielectric constant, and it may be beneficial to first analyze absorption before addressing the dielectric constant itself.
  • One participant proposes using the Bloch equations to model absorption in an ensemble of two-level systems, suggesting that this could lead to a reasonable calculation of the dielectric constant.
  • Another participant mentions a book titled "Electric-Dipole Polarizabilities of Atoms, Molecules and Clusters," highlighting the need to consider hyperfine structures in alkali atoms, which complicates the model beyond a simple two-level system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a specific method for calculating the dielectric constant, and multiple competing views regarding the complexity and modeling approaches remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the generalizability of their proposed methods and the assumptions underlying their calculations, particularly regarding the dependence on frequency, temperature, and the specific characteristics of the Rubidium gas.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to researchers and students involved in atomic physics, particularly those studying cold atoms, dielectric properties, and related experimental techniques.

wdlang
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assume that i have a cloud of cold dilute Rubidium atoms

i know the atomic levels of the Rubidium atom

How to calculate the dielectric constant of this gas?

Which book can i consult?
 
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I think that in Feynman's lectures there is a calculation of dielectric constant for a gas.
I am not sure, I don't have the books now.
May be a good start.
 


nasu said:
I think that in Feynman's lectures there is a calculation of dielectric constant for a gas.
I am not sure, I don't have the books now.
May be a good start.


Thanks a lot. But i am afraid that his book is a bit not to details

Is there any book suitable for guys on cold atom experiments?
 


I don't think there is a "general" answer to how you calculate something as complicated as the dielectric constant, the latter is -in general- frequency and temperature dependent and what model you use will depends on which processes are involved for that particular frequency/temperature.
Rememeber that all absorption processes will also give rise to a change in the dielectric constant, so it is probably a good idea to first think about absorption and then worry about the dielectric constant.
It is fairly straightforward to e.g. calculate the change (and in some cases even the absolute value) if you can model your system as an uncoupled ensemble to two-level systems. The way to do this is to first calculate the absorption via the Bloch equations (textbook stuff if you are dealing with an ensemble of spin 1/2 systems) and then use the Kramer-Kronig relations to get the permittivity.
I don't know much about cold atoms, but presumably it should be possible to use a relatively simple model (maybe even just the Bloch equations) for the absorption and still get a reasonable answer, right?
 


f95toli said:
I don't think there is a "general" answer to how you calculate something as complicated as the dielectric constant, the latter is -in general- frequency and temperature dependent and what model you use will depends on which processes are involved for that particular frequency/temperature.
Rememeber that all absorption processes will also give rise to a change in the dielectric constant, so it is probably a good idea to first think about absorption and then worry about the dielectric constant.
It is fairly straightforward to e.g. calculate the change (and in some cases even the absolute value) if you can model your system as an uncoupled ensemble to two-level systems. The way to do this is to first calculate the absorption via the Bloch equations (textbook stuff if you are dealing with an ensemble of spin 1/2 systems) and then use the Kramer-Kronig relations to get the permittivity.
I don't know much about cold atoms, but presumably it should be possible to use a relatively simple model (maybe even just the Bloch equations) for the absorption and still get a reasonable answer, right?

Thanks a lot for the reply.

i find a book on the topic

"Electric-Dipole Polarizabilities of Atoms, Molecules and Clusters"

Alkali atoms are simple but not so simple as a two-level system. In many cases, you have to take the hyperfine structures into account. There are many stuffs like CG coefficients to care.
 

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