Getting the emissivity from scratch

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    Emissivity scratch
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of emissivity for various materials, particularly focusing on the challenges and methodologies involved in determining this property from first principles. Participants explore the theoretical and practical aspects of emissivity, including its dependence on surface conditions and material properties, as well as the role of defects and impurities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that emissivity is often neglected in solid state physics literature, leading to uncertainty about how to compute it from scratch.
  • There is a suggestion that emissivity can be related to the dielectric constant of a material, with some proposing that ab initio calculations could be used to derive this property.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the dependence of emissivity on surface preparation, with examples given about how polishing and oxidation can affect measurements.
  • Some participants propose starting with simplified models, such as considering a flat surface, before introducing complexities like surface roughness or oxidation.
  • There is a discussion about the applicability of time-dependent DFT for calculating dielectric constants, with a caution that real materials often exhibit complex behaviors due to defects and impurities.
  • One participant mentions that for metals, the emissivity tends to increase with temperature, suggesting a relationship with electron-phonon interactions and scattering effects, though they express uncertainty about the linearity of this relationship.
  • Another participant explains the relationship between reflectivity, transmissivity, and absorptivity, referencing Kirchhoff's law and suggesting that accurate band structure calculations are necessary for determining emissivity.
  • It is noted that emissivity values can vary with frequency, and that engineering values often provide a single emissivity value without accounting for this variability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the methodologies for calculating emissivity, with no consensus on a single approach. There is acknowledgment of the complexity of the topic, particularly regarding the influence of surface conditions and material properties.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential inaccuracy of theoretical calculations compared to experimental results, particularly for real materials that may be affected by defects and impurities. The discussion also highlights the need for accurate models to account for frequency dependence in emissivity.

fluidistic
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I have checked around 10 Solid State Physics and Condensed Matter textbooks, including the classic "Ashcroft and Mermin" and I've noticed that the "emissivity" of a solid is a totally neglected subject.
This leaves me entirely knowledgless about how to compute the emissivity from scratch. I do not even know whether it is a purely electronic phenomenon for metals, and/or an atomic/ionic phenomenon for semiconductors and insulators.
I have found the paper https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stanislav_Avdoshenko/publication/265855757_High-Temperature_Emissivity_of_Silica_Zirconia_and_Samaria_From_ab_Initio_Simulations_Role_of_Defects_and_Disorder/links/561d25b508aecade1acb3409.pdf which suggests that the emissivity can be found by calculating the dielectric constant, which makes entirely sense to me because it is related to the EM absorption of the material. But then it is said that such a quantity can be calculated using an ab initio approach. I do not know whether this is valid for any material, specially non-metallic ones. What about materials without free electrons? How would one approach the problem?
 
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fluidistic said:
This leaves me entirely knowledgless about how to compute the emissivity from scratch.
Could this even be done? Emissivity is a surface property, so it will depend a lot on how the surface is prepared. For instance, a metallic surface will have a different absorptivity depending on how much it is polished (or if there is an oxide layer at the surface).

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/emissivity-coefficients-d_447.html
 
DrClaude said:
Could this even be done? Emissivity is a surface property, so it will depend a lot on how the surface is prepared. For instance, a metallic surface will have a different absorptivity depending on how much it is polished (or if there is an oxide layer at the surface).

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/emissivity-coefficients-d_447.html
Sure it can be done. You can consider a perfectly flat surface for a simpler model, then add a flat oxidized slab of a certain thickness to complicate the model and eventually simulate surface roughness if you want. My goal is not to compute the most realisitc case. It's to know where to even start, with the most simplistic model.
 
I believe the bulk dielectric constant or some materials can -at least in principle- be calculated using time-dependent DFT. That said, I'm not sure if this is also true for a surface.

Note that the dielectric properties of real materials (as opposed to idealized crystals) are very, very complicated and frequently dominated by defects and impurities. Hence, whereas I am sure it is possible to in principle calculate some of these properties; I wouldn't be too surprised if the calculated values were way off those obtained from experiments.
Example very clean sapphire (Al2O3, a material I am very familiar with) has a bulk loss tangent of 10^-6. The theoretical value is about 10^-11 (at T close to 0 k); i.e. even in the best crystals you will find that the the dielectric properties are completely dominated by impurities and defects.
 
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f95toli said:
I believe the bulk dielectric constant or some materials can -at least in principle- be calculated using time-dependent DFT. That said, I'm not sure if this is also true for a surface.

Note that the dielectric properties of real materials (as opposed to idealized crystals) are very, very complicated and frequently dominated by defects and impurities. Hence, whereas I am sure it is possible to in principle calculate some of these properties; I wouldn't be too surprised if the calculated values were way off those obtained from experiments.
Example very clean sapphire (Al2O3, a material I am very familiar with) has a bulk loss tangent of 10^-6. The theoretical value is about 10^-11 (at T close to 0 k); i.e. even in the best crystals you will find that the the dielectric properties are completely dominated by impurities and defects.
I see, thanks for the information. Usually for metals the effects of impurities near room temperature and above are virtually invisible. I do not think the emissivity would behave differently for this particular case. Also, I have noticed that the emissivity of most metals increases with temperature, somewhat linearly at least up to 1500 K. I am sure there is a simple explanation involving the electrons/phonons/scattering, etc. I wish someone with the knowledge would explain that behavior.
 
A material's interaction with light can be characterized as a function of frequency by its reflectivity ##(R)##, transmissivity ##(T)##, and it absorptivity ##(A): T + R + A = 1##. When the object is in thermal equilibrium with its surroundings Kirchoff's law of thermal radiation (which is a special case of conservation of energy) tells us that absorptivity equals emissivity. (https://www.optotherm.com/emiss-physics.htm)

If you want to calculate the emissivity for a real material you'll need accurate band structure calculations. However, if say you were happy to know the emissivity of an opaque material from measured reflectivity data then the emissivity ##(E)## is: ##E = 1 - R##.

Using the Drude-Lorentz model, you could also invent a series of oscillator strengths, resonance frequencies, scattering frequencies to give you a dielectric function. From the dielectric function it rather straight forward to turn that into ##R##, ##T##, or ##A/E##.
 
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fluidistic said:
Also, I have noticed that the emissivity of most metals increases with temperature, somewhat linearly at least up to 1500 K. I am sure there is a simple explanation involving the electrons/phonons/scattering, etc. I wish someone with the knowledge would explain that behavior.

You are probably looking at engineering values for emissivity, which often give a single value for the emissivity. It actually changes as a function of frequency.

As temperature goes up, more phonons will be created thus there will be more electron-phonon scattering. This will broaden the thing we call the plasma edge (which only occurs in metals). Due to the high density of electrons at the Fermi surface, the plasma edge is usually in the ultraviolet. Below the plasma edge the metal is usually highly reflective. Above the plasma edge the metal has a low reflectivity. In the visible with increased scattering the reflectivity will go down and because ##\varepsilon(f) = 1 - R(f)## the emissivity will go up.

I doubt the change in emissivity will be exactly linear with temperature because it will depend on many details.
 

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