Can a nonempty set has probability zero?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether a nonempty set can have a probability of zero, particularly in the context of probability measures and the properties of closures of sets. Participants explore theoretical implications and examples related to probability measures.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant rephrases the question to clarify whether a nonempty set X can have P(X)=0, proposing that if F is a nonempty set with P(F)≠0, then its closure F' minus F could be a nonempty set A, questioning if P(A)=0.
  • Another participant asserts that the closure of a set with probability 0 could have probability 1, challenging the initial premise.
  • A participant provides an example involving an absolutely continuous distribution, noting that while the interval (0,1) can have non-zero probability, its closure [0,1] also has non-zero probability, while the difference {0,1} has zero probability.
  • Further, an example is given where throwing a dart at the real line results in hitting a rational number with probability 0, yet hitting some element in the closure of the rationals has probability 1, illustrating a case of a non-empty set with probability zero.
  • A participant acknowledges the complexity of the relationship between the probability of a set and its closure, attributing it to the nature of the probability measure and the set itself.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the relationship between a set and its closure in terms of probability. Multiple competing views remain on whether a nonempty set can have a probability of zero, and the discussion does not reach a consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the specific probability measure and the characteristics of the sets involved, indicating that conclusions may vary based on these factors.

rukawakaede
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Reworded version:

I think I need to re-word as follow:

Can a nonempty set X with P(X)=0?

Suppose F to be a non-empty set with [tex]P(F)\neq 0[/tex]. Call its closure be F'.

Now let set theoretic different F'\F be A. Clearly, A could be non-empty.
Is this the case where P(A)=0?

Is not, how do you relate P(F) and P(F')?=================================Original version:
Can a nonempty set X has P(X)=0?

My thought is suppose a nonempty set F then its closure F'\F=A where P(A)=0.

Is this true??
 
Last edited:
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rukawakaede said:
Can a nonempty set X has P(X)=0?

My thought is suppose a nonempty set F then its closure F'\F=A where P(A)=0.

Is this true??

No. The closure of a set of probability 0 could have probability 1
 
lavinia said:
No. The closure of a set of probability 0 could have probability 1

I think I need to re-word as follow:

Suppose F to be a non-empty set with [tex]P(F)\neq 0[/tex]. Call its closure be F'.

Now let set theoretic different F'\F be A. Clearly, A could be non-empty.
Is this the case where P(A)=0?

Is not, how do you relate P(F) and P(F')?
 
Last edited:
Think of an absolutely continuous distribution (Gaussian as one example). The interval (0,1) could have non-zero probability. Its closure is [0,1], also with non-zero probability, but the difference you reference is [tex]\{0,1\}[/tex] which has zero probability.
 
lavinia said:
No. The closure of a set of probability 0 could have probability 1

Of course: throw a dart at the real line. Then P(hitting a rational)=0, but

P(hitting some element in Cl(Q))=1

Then this is also an example of a set being non-empty, yet having probability zero.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for those commented above.
Now I understand that the probability of a set and probability its closure equals depends on the probability measure (or probability mass function) and of course the set itself.
 

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